Torrias
New Member
slightly imperfect
Posts: 44
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Post by Torrias on Feb 7, 2012 20:30:14 GMT -5
Lol! Right on the money about Mistborn. Nevertheless, I found all such...events...in the trilogy to be extremely well-handled, significant, and downright satisfying. And certainly the event in the first book, I fully expected, by the time it came about. I normally hate that sort of thing, but it was just so vastly fitting that I personally wouldn't have had it any other way (as amazed as I am to be able to say that). Bainespal, I've just got to throw my two cents in as a plug. Honestly, "satisfying" sums up the whole trilogy for me, if a huge emphasis is placed on the word. I hadn't been that absorbed in a story/world in a very long time. Gritty, beautiful, violent, honest, dark, triumphant, determinedly hopeful, masterfully orchestrated, all without vulgarity. Quite a ride. But yes, don't get too overly attached to any character whatsoever to the extent that you'll throw the book across the room if they die... You really have to trust the author to work everything out (and exceptionally well) in the end. Rather like faith in the face of loss/danger in real life, lol.
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Post by yoda47 on Feb 7, 2012 23:08:30 GMT -5
I thought it had to happen in the first book, and I could deal with it.
It was intragal to the plot in the third book, but I hate that.... so now he's on the same list as the writer of Nemisis and the author of Vector Prime... just farther down the list, and unlike those two, who's work I now boycott, I'll still read some of Sanderson's work, just not the last two books in the Mistborn series.
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Post by Divides the Waters on Feb 8, 2012 17:34:52 GMT -5
Yoda, if you're a Star Wars fan, you should know that it was not the fault of Salvatore that Vector Prime went as it did; he was forced to do that by LFL, and ultimately George Lucas himself made the decision. I am not advocating him as an author, but you should at least boycott the right people, and not shoot the messenger.
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Post by Bainespal on Feb 8, 2012 20:29:31 GMT -5
Yoda, I don't want spoilers, but is there a good reason that I should reconsider reading Mistborn? Hmmm... how to phrase this.... Do you agree, disagree, or VIOLENTLY disagree with the advice to a writer "don't be afraid to kill your darlings" as a writer, I feel one way about this.. as a READER, I have a ... strong reaction ... towards writers who ... take this advice to heart more literally than most.... Thank you. Your post makes for a riddle, one I would like to read the book to solve, when or if I ever get the time. I've heard that Sanderson tried to turn a lot of conventions on their heads in that trilogy.
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Post by yoda47 on Feb 8, 2012 21:27:37 GMT -5
Yoda, if you're a Star Wars fan, you should know that it was not the fault of Salvatore that Vector Prime went as it did; he was forced to do that by LFL, and ultimately George Lucas himself made the decision. I am not advocating him as an author, but you should at least boycott the right people, and not shoot the messenger. I hadn't ever heard that before...
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Post by yoda47 on Feb 8, 2012 21:30:27 GMT -5
Hmmm... how to phrase this.... Do you agree, disagree, or VIOLENTLY disagree with the advice to a writer "don't be afraid to kill your darlings" as a writer, I feel one way about this.. as a READER, I have a ... strong reaction ... towards writers who ... take this advice to heart more literally than most.... Thank you. Your post makes for a riddle, one I would like to read the book to solve, when or if I ever get the time. I've heard that Sanderson tried to turn a lot of conventions on their heads in that trilogy. That he did. Most of them were good decisions, too. It was mostly just that one thing that irked me. I'd really reccomend the first book, just not the next two.. unless that kind of thing doesn't bother you...
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Post by newburydave on Feb 9, 2012 9:39:50 GMT -5
As a happy ending advocate I violently disagree with the advice to kill off your main POV (darling). I've had people close to them get killed by the bad guys (it's an effective first plot point mechanism in Act 1 [1st plot point=the place where the POV totally commits to the action that is the substance of Act 2]). RE: God as a character. I've always tried to make it like our reality. God is a very real character in my life; I interact with Him constantly, He answers prayer and sends deliverance frequently, but it's not like an action hero swooping in from Valhalla to save the day. In my stories I try to portray my own experiences and the experience of my Spirit Filled brothers and sisters in the actions and internal states of my characters. The biggest part of any story is the internal moral conflicts and wrestling of the POVs. Their personal journeys are the story, the action is just how you bring the conflict on them and show their internal Character under stress. I guess one caveat with my first statement (above) is the case where my POV gives their lives for the sake of their friends and loved ones; but that kind of ends the story since I tend to like to write in first person. In short God is a very real character in my stories, but He usually works through corporeal characters (or Angels). He's the king sending out His men-at-arms to accomplish His purposes as they relate to external events; but He's right there in the middle of "His People" directly doing the real work of inspiration, transformation and regeneration. That is the whole point of creation after all, the specific facts of full redemption for each individual member of the Bride of Christ. God's primary work is to make people ( and other sentient creatures) whole (holy) by his Spirits presence. These whole people go out and impact the created universe. Well that's my overall plan/desire of what I want to portray in my stories. [Note: "Whole"is different than "Perfect" in the common usage sense of the term] I suppose a major variant on that is when the POV is not yet a child of God but their love of the truth and honor leads them into that relationship in the midst of the "Providential" conflicts that God sends them to force them to decide the issues. Okay, nuff confusing theol-speak. I guess in a nutshell I put God in my stories in the sense of "God in us to will and do what pleases Him." I believe that even the unsaved are acting by God's grace when they choose to do right, and that choice moves them closer to the kingdom [more theology; Prevenient Grace - (Lat.) Grace before the fact; AKA Common Grace - that God gives to all men seeking to draw them to salvation] IMHO, on the WOW scale, that makes Sf appealing to so many people, the transformed actions of a redeemed sinner are way more amazing than having "God" come down and whack the bad guys in person. (not to mention more true to life. ;D) Write on beloved Sibs SGD dave
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Post by Kessie on Feb 9, 2012 10:23:49 GMT -5
Eh. I don't like books where the main characters die, either. I mean, when the characters are disposable, I don't care too much, like in Temeraire, where Laurence goes through flight crew like a toddler through Skittles. But if it's more like an Orson Scott Card, where he spends the whole book making you like the character, and then kills them off ... c'mon, I've read so much fanfic by people vengefully killing off characters that I liked, I'm not real interested in reading real books where that happens.
Dave: Oddly, I have no problem showing transforming power in peoples' lives, and inner conflicts and the rest. I can grasp that. I know what that's like. I know how God speaks to me in my life.
I just can't write God himself because I can't grasp God himself. It's like what happens to my brain when I try to comprehend the High Priestly Prayer in John. That prayer is beyond the way my mind works.
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Torrias
New Member
slightly imperfect
Posts: 44
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Post by Torrias on Feb 9, 2012 14:01:32 GMT -5
....I was going to post again on the subject of character-killing, but it's turning out to be worthy of a separate thread so this one isn't hijacked or cluttered. It's quite interesting to me because I always HATED character-killing---I get attached to characters---until this particular trilogy gave me a new perspective by handling things so differently than what I'd ever encountered. I'm using Mistborn as my example for that reason, lol; I'm not trying to sell it to anyone. So, if anyone is interested, here's the dedicated thread on positive experiences with character deaths, as reader or writer. Newburydave's comment about happy endings really spurred me, because character death doesn't have to make an unhappy one.
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Post by myrthman on Feb 11, 2012 19:59:33 GMT -5
Since I posted this, I've read the first two books in The Door Within trilogy by Wayne Thomas Batson. He handles God in a very interesting way. There's a flashback scene to when King Eliam is bodily killed by the Big Bad (his name escapes me right now); however, Eliam's spirit continues to reign, influencing those in His service and drawing those who are not.
He is never "seen" by a character because he's sequestered himself in his throne room and any who look upon him are struck blind by his radiance. That's the warning at least; this hasn't actually happened. He does empower and respond to the prayers of his servants, but they struggle through conflicts just like we do in real life; his power shows up in courageous acts, bolstered faith, and improved unity among the characters.
Eliam has a role that's realistic, at least for the world of the story (which, incidentally is really two worlds: the fantastic Realm and the more mundane "real world"), without being a deus ex machina. "God" is clearly a person in this setting, more like Aslan of Narnia and less like the impersonal Force of Star Wars. Batson's treatment of God makes his story a delight to read. If you haven't read it, I highly recommend it.
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Post by Kessie on Feb 11, 2012 22:24:45 GMT -5
I'm enjoying the heck out of the Firebird trilogy right now. I've only just started the second book, though, and I have a feeling that God will be a lot more involved by the end. So far, though, I like how she's made a Star Warsy religion that still feels Christian without being overly preachy.
It helps that the main characters are really, really likeable. I'm inclined to like their belief system just because I like them so very much. I haven't seen a book written with this kind of gut adoration of the characters and world since Harry Potter. ...and the fanfics I used to write, usually in an emotional frenzy because I had to get the story on the page right that second or I'd explode.
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