Joel P.
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Vertavit on duch Firthos est, cas asheidux on duch shei est.
Posts: 103
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Post by Joel P. on Nov 18, 2012 15:32:47 GMT -5
Hey all.
So. I tend to have trouble with rewriting stuff (specifically my one-third of a novel).
The problem is not that I can't tell what needs rewriting, but rather in the process of rewriting. I either A) get bored and switch to another project or 2) find myself unable to balance the need for creation of new material with the need to keep some of what I already have (and end up not being able to incorporate important pre-existing sequences).
Any pointers? What do you folks find helps your rewriting process? Or should I just scrap it and start over? (that's not a real question, that's just my frustration speaking).
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rjj7
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Today I'm a drake
Posts: 202
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Post by rjj7 on Nov 18, 2012 21:07:12 GMT -5
Can't help you there, I'm afraid. I've never gotten to the rewriting stage of things.
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Post by stormiel on Nov 18, 2012 21:48:44 GMT -5
Hi Joel, I have the exact same problem. What I've been trying to do to solve it is to plan all the way to the end of the story (in my case that means to plan and plot 3 novels). I've been reading some books on writing fiction (Christian Fiction Writing books have been the most helpful so far). So far I've had some success doing this (its a work in progress.) When I get board I usually do a combination of the following: Read books on writing. Take my writing elsewhere (like a coffee shop, the library, anywhere to get a change of scenery) Get a cup of coffee (coffee is my answer to a lot of things lol) Read interviews by my favorite writers Read my favorite books (Something else you can do is read your favorite book and take a stack of post it notes and a highlighter and highlight and make notes of any of your favorite scenes. I like to try to figure out what it is that makes me love that scene and how they wrote it in such away that captured my attention and pulled me into the story.) Music (I got a whole scene written while listening to Cafe Del Mar's "Any Other Name" about an hour ago) Watch movies Then get back to work The best pointer I have is create your entire plot, commit to it, write the rough draft and rewrite when you finish. Do you write Fantasy or Science Fiction?
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Post by stormiel on Nov 18, 2012 21:52:16 GMT -5
Please don't scrap! That's bad! lol
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Post by metalikhan on Nov 19, 2012 11:02:03 GMT -5
I don't think I can offer much sage advice either.
I have the boredom threshold of a 3 y.o. (not the same as attention span, btw) so I always have multiple story projects going in different SFF genres and milieus. As I near completion with any one of them, that's when I set the others aside for finalizing that one. If I'm stuck with a scene in one story, it helps me to switch to another and let the troublesome one simmer on the back burner a while.
Since I edit for a couple of places, too, I sometimes find that my brain's in a more analytical mode when I return to my own stories so I can troubleshoot them better.
Don't scrap what you've written. If it's a story you had some passion about but the passion's waned, it may be that you'll come back to it later. But you might also consider shorter projects (short stories, novelettes, novellas) so boredom has less chance to set in before finishing a story. Short stories involving your main novel concept are also a great way to expand on the milieu -- side events that may affect the novel's characters but may/may not have them present for more than a cameo appearance (if at all).
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Post by Kessie on Nov 19, 2012 12:35:28 GMT -5
Well, make sure you're going about your rewrite the right way. Read Self-Editing for Fiction Writers. Figure out what you can cut, what needs refining, and what just needs some word-tightening.
It helps if you make an outline of the story, and you can do all of your cutting and changes there (with italics and highlighting). It's easier to stay on track with your next draft, and you can see how far you've come and what's left.
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rjj7
Full Member
Today I'm a drake
Posts: 202
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Post by rjj7 on Nov 20, 2012 11:59:24 GMT -5
I'll second the idea of outlining. More and more, I'm starting to doubt the conventional wisdom that there are people who write with outlines and people who write without. While I don't doubt that there are people who can write without outlines (and boy do I respect anyone who can do that!), I think they could be much better and faster if they learned to use them; maybe not a rigid, inflexible outline, but at least a roadmap of sorts.
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Post by fluke on Nov 20, 2012 13:59:55 GMT -5
I use something like Ingermanson's snowflake method. I start with a simple sentence or two to express the story, then I expand that out. When I have the beginning and end mapped (not written, but I know where the characters are starting and where they will end up), I map out scenes. Each scene starts with a title summary, then I come back and write a paragraph about what needs to happen in that scene. When it's time to write the scene, I expand that paragraph into the needed length.
This isn't as rigid as it seems. The other day, I had a very important scene where I had written the end of it first and planned to write the first part later. Because of length (1416 words), it needed to split off the first part. I wrote my little description of the new scene with the scene's goal and then started to work to that goal. I had the characters Derke and Syantere' searching for the big bad, Lord Sanuto. Original plan: they talk for a couple of lines while walking, spot Sanuto's spiderbat, and give chase. Derke sends Syantere' back to the inn to get Father Phaeus. Derke confronts Sanuto on his own.
Not the way it came about. Derke and Syantere' talked longer than planned (and the conversation was important to their story). That dialog became a scene on its own, with them spotting the spiderbat at the most inopportune time. The scene ends with Derke sending Syantere' back (712 words). The next scene contains the confrontation (558 words). One scene split to two then became three.
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Joel P.
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Vertavit on duch Firthos est, cas asheidux on duch shei est.
Posts: 103
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Post by Joel P. on Nov 20, 2012 21:28:22 GMT -5
Thanks for all the input, guys! I suppose I will have to cave and do some outlining... I think part of the problem is the fact that, though I know where I'm going (sort of), it's all in my head; so little details which could keep me interested frequently get lost along the way. Stormiel, I write both. And the novel of which I was speaking is actually SF set in my Fantasy world (Elves in spaceships, anyone? ;D). And I did write the rough draft of the first third, but I realized it needed to be rewritten to be less cliche and just....better. That's what happens when you start writing at fifteen, I guess. Metalikhan, I do ezackly the same thing. Thing is, I don't LIKE having the boredom threshold of a 3yo, 'cause then I never get anything (other than the occasional SS) done. Kessie, I haven't read SEFFW, but I suppose I shall have to obtain and read it. Randy, I HATE OUTLINING!! Sorry. I really do. The most 'outlining' I've ever done is writing out the chapter titles. The rest, I keep in my head. But like I said I s'pose I'll have to start now. Fluke, that's impressive. God's clearly blessed you with a much more careful, organized mind than - squirrel! See what I mean? But I know what you mean about scenes going beyond what you intend; I think it happens to all of us.
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Post by metalikhan on Nov 21, 2012 12:22:15 GMT -5
Metalikhan, I do ezackly the same thing. Thing is, I don't LIKE having the boredom threshold of a 3yo, 'cause then I never get anything (other than the occasional SS) done. It took me a quarter of a century to figure out how to make it work for me. Don't despair -- eventually it translates into flexibility & the ability to change mental gears quickly. I don't outline either -- chapter titles and a sentence or two about what happens in each is as far as it goes for me. I tend to just aim the keyboard and start firing. And short stories -- they're almost an art form in themselves. Don't dis yourself if you have a knack for them. There are lots of folks who can't work within the tight constraints of short stories, novelettes, & novellas. And not counting self publishing, there are more publication opportunities for short story writers than for novel writers.
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Post by fluke on Nov 21, 2012 16:09:17 GMT -5
Some of my favorite story ideas came from the squirrel method. I don't want to derail this thread (squirrel!), so I'll make a new one and put a link here. And I should mention that I fill in the scenes not in chronological order, but in order of importance, just as Dave mentions below. That helps keep me on track. If I know where I'm going, I don't wander off.
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Post by newburydave on Nov 21, 2012 16:14:00 GMT -5
One technique I have used is to write the "Critical Points" in the stream of the story. Ref. the three act structure: write the key turning points in the plot and the end point; then it becomes an exercise in filling in the action that gets from one point to the next.
SGD dave
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Post by Kessie on Nov 21, 2012 19:27:45 GMT -5
I meant the kind of outline for revisions. Read your story and make a list of all the high points. Then shuffle those around on your list, add new things, and so on. It helps jumpstart an outline for a partially-written story, too. Then you can jump back and forth in time and change things quickly.
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Post by firestorm78583 on Nov 23, 2012 15:52:39 GMT -5
When I go back and reread what I have written, I tweak the wording and make other edits. I have a file where I jot down ideas, then flesh them out later. I can copy and paste into the main story whenever I think it's fleshed out enough. If I am replacing a rewritten scene with a previous scene, then I paste the old version in the idea file.
The one problem I do have is retyping handwritten notes or other stuff not already on the computer. That part is boring.
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Post by stormiel on Nov 25, 2012 4:35:47 GMT -5
I found a novel writing kit at Hastings and it had several different notepads for different things. One of them was scenes. You would start with your favorite and write down who was in it, where they were at, what senses were used (sight, sound, and such), what the goal of the scene was, the conflict or how it added to the overall conflict or if it was to create a problem or solve a problem. I've been using that idea as well that way i don't forget my favorite scenes. I don't like formal outlining either. I usually just write a page or two of the condensed story so I know where I'm going then go from there. Sounds like you've got a good idea Joel. Stick with it, you'll make it
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