Technology Disguised as Magic

[Bethany J.]

I have this idea for a world kicking around in the back of my mind. It's a fantasy world with magic...except that it went through an apocalyptic event of some kind a generation or two ago, and before that apocalypse, it was a highly advanced scientific world. It was advanced to the point where the lines between technology and "magic" were blurred unless you understood the science. Now, nobody remembers the technology existed, and it's being used by the government (or some other major villain) to control the populace.

What would this magic be like? And how is it that nobody remembers the technology that existed before? Thoughts, anybody?

[newburydave]

Check out the Techomages in Babylon 5.

[Joel P.]

Ooh, I have a co-op Earth future world I created with some friends of mine that's akin to that: basically, the (nuclear) apocalypse led to some people developing strong TK/PK powers, Christianity receded from the scene temporarily, and steampunk tech became possible.

Check out 'A Canticle for Leibowitz' for some ideas on how to make the society 'forget' technology. It's a very good (though somewhat odd) book.

[Kessie]

That's how Dragonriders of Pern works. At one time they were a futuristic colony from Earth, but they lost contact with Earth and their technology sort of became myth. Like that stuff they use to spray on the Thread--agenohfour or something like that. It's become a phonetic garble. Pern has all kinds of delightful forgotten technology sprinkled through it. They've been on Pern for so many centuries they've forgotten all their science.

You know the quote about sufficiently advanced science is indistinguishable from magic? Girl Genius turned it on its head: Sufficiently explained magic is indistinguishable from science. :-D

[metalikhan]

Nov 22, 2012 10:31:30 GMT -5 Kessie said:

That's how Dragonriders of Pern works. At one time they were a futuristic colony from Earth, but they lost contact with Earth and their technology sort of became myth. Like that stuff they use to spray on the Thread--agenohfour or something like that. It's become a phonetic garble. Pern has all kinds of delightful forgotten technology sprinkled through it. They've been on Pern for so many centuries they've forgotten all their science.

Pern is a wonderful example. And it was so cool when they started rediscovering some of the artifacts left by the original colonists.

An example from our own world might be the myths surrounding Atlantis. There are stories and conjectures that they had advanced sciences but those were lost when the continent sank. Even the land itself has passed into myth.

[newburydave]

I don't think too many generations would have to pass after the power to run technology ends, before the capabilities of technology become equated with magic.

ie: What if something made electronics cease to function. Two hundred years from now how would people view the "myth" of digital computers, TV, Radio or the internet?

IMHO Atlantis / the Antediluvian world had some kind of power source likely related to the powers God gave Adam in the original creation which mankind used for violence and war so God shut it off.

Now, aside from the demonic power that actual witches and warlocks wield as instruments of their familiar "spirits", the racial memory of the ancient antediluvian technology is considered the magics of the ancients.

SGD
dave

PS. I live near one of the most ancient centers of witchcraft and spiritism in North America. We have actual experience with witches and warlocks who have real power from Satan and his demons. It is real, but Jesus is well able to smash their power when we stand in Him. That was actually some of the spiritual warfare we had to wage just to exist in Newburyport.

IMHO that type of power is real and should never be discounted. Many if not most worldly, unchurched young people believe in the occult kind of spiritual power but are totally ignorant of spiritual power in Jesus.

[Bethany J.]

I need to check out these Dragonriders of Pern. I have never read those books!

Well, it's not that technology is forgotten so much as it's unknown and actively "sold" to people as magic. Like, the government has control of it and uses it to hoodwink the populace. For example, a fortune teller knows everything about a person, and they think it's magic; in reality, she has access to the government's hidden security cameras that allow her to survey their home and history. Etc.

[myrthman]

Just saw commercials for TV show "Revolution" that plays with this idea. Can't vouch for the show beyond that but it might be worth a view.

Also, Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman play with the idea in the books of The Deathgate Cycle. I never finished the series, but I remember thoroughly enjoying those books that I did read. If I remember right, there were "elves" and another race that both descended from humans after a nuclear(?) holocaust.

Also also, I'm reminded of a short story I read numerous times in school. "By the Waters of Babylon" by Stephen Vincent Benet. I remember having fun guessing what the various disfigured inscriptions were referencing. I don't remember much else though. I should probably find it and The Deathgate Cycle to reread...

I, for one, would love to read more in this genre, so keep us posted!

[fluke]

I enjoyed the Deathgate Cycle. There was good character growth in the Sartan character also. Oh, the things he learned about himself and his people!

[Kessie]

Dave:

There's also speculation and some frightening evidence that preflood man had nuclear reactors and nuclear weapons, and used it often.

s8int.com/atomic1.html

Grain of salt necessary, but it's also freakishly interesting, especially about the atomic glass in a desert in Africa. The Egyptians even carved stuff out of it.

[yoda47]

Nov 22, 2012 21:00:52 GMT -5 Bethany J. said:

I need to check out these Dragonriders of Pern. I have never read those books!

...

You need to do so!

Author is Anne McCaffery

Start with "The Dragonriders of Pern"

[newburydave]

Quite interesting, Kessie, and entirely expected.

Consider that Adam and his descendants had great knowledge of natural science. they were as depraved as we are and they lived for centuries, constantly building their knowledge base.

It would see incredible to me that they didn't develop a highly technological civilization with all the curses that acrue.

My Curatorium series assumes that they actually developed spaceflight and colonized other worlds. Maybe we'll meet some of them among the stars, hmmm.....

So, yeah, atomic weapons...probably.

SGD
dave

[Bethany J.]

Wow, all that (about preflood civilization) is fascinating to think about! But really, I wonder why God would have Noah build a wooden boat, if civilization was really so advanced... He could buy a boat. Or a spaceship - that'd be safer to escape a worldwide flood! Eh, I'm too skeptical to enjoy speculating about it, I guess.

I'm not against imagining about stuff the Bible doesn't talk about, though! I've frequently thought of writing a story where Enoch and Elijah were transported to other planets when God "took" them, and became prophets for the people there. That'd be a fun idea to work from!

[rjj7]

There would have been a number of practical reasons for a wooden boat, even if they had super-advanced tech. After the flood, timber would be extremely scarce for a number of years, and with all of the technology destroyed, Noah and family would need to start over from scratch. They could have used timbers off of the ark much more readily than sheet metal.

I go both ways on just how far humanity had advanced. On the one hand, they lived a long time and had much less time to genetically deteriorate than we have. On the other, most wouldn't have had a Christian lifestyle and mindset with which to discover more about the world. But I love hearing little bits of evidence indicating high technology; they're super fun to read and think about.

[Ranger Varon]

I have similar premises, usually dealing with Atlantis (As mentioned) and its legacy of highly advanced ruins and technology scattered across the globe, and they return from their subsurface exile after 10,000 years and prove a major boon to humanity in developing FTL technology.
But the magic of Atlantis works in two ways, actual demonic magic in the later periods, and technology. I haven't done a whole lot with Atlantis yet, since it's more of a Macguffin in my pulp stories and I haven't started the sword & sandal stories set in Atlantis yet.