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Post by Resha Caner on Nov 14, 2009 12:46:09 GMT -5
Ooh, muse. I like that. Do I get to dress like a Greek statue? No, wait. That's a bad picture.
OK, so we have a framework of sorts to work within, but what plot would precipitate from it? I suppose the angel who doesn't believe has to be fallen, doesn't he. If he weren't, I would think he could just go ask God about it ... or are there angels who don't have direct access to God?
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Post by juniperlee on Nov 14, 2009 13:11:51 GMT -5
Fallen or perhaps an angel that's been given a mission that keeps them from contact with God...but how would that work? Maybe our angel/angels have a job on another planet...or is that stretching it too far. That may be too far out there, even for us lovers of speculative fiction
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Post by dizzyjam on Nov 14, 2009 15:01:32 GMT -5
Not really, if done right.
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Post by Resha Caner on Nov 14, 2009 23:22:54 GMT -5
I agree with dizzy. If done right, sending an angel off to do a job before the creation could work. It might actually create some nice tension for said angel to have a partner who is secretly fallen. Then you'd have an angel tempting another angel:
"I hear I AM is planning on creating physical beings. I don't see how it can work. Physical beings! They'll make a mess of things."
"I don't believe He will do that."
"Oh, but I think he already has. What if He intends for them to take our place? Or what if he puts them here, on our planet, and they make a mess of it?"
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Post by dizzyjam on Nov 14, 2009 23:58:34 GMT -5
Now you sound like someone talking about the pre-Adamic race.
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Post by juniperlee on Nov 15, 2009 8:32:00 GMT -5
I always consider the Bible as God's story with man. Imagine if there was a Bible that was God's story with the angels. There might be a couple of mentions in this "angel Bible" about humans...just enough to make our rouge angels question the humans existence.
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Post by dizzyjam on Nov 15, 2009 8:57:59 GMT -5
Ooooh, I like that. Especially since I always wondered if there were writings for angels as well.
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Post by Resha Caner on Nov 15, 2009 18:10:54 GMT -5
Very cool.
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Post by newburydave on Dec 28, 2009 20:34:23 GMT -5
I believe that there are more references to angels in the inspired scriptures so we don't have to rely on the rabinical writings.
Paul says that the fallen angels we war against are spiritiual "princes, powers and rulers". We know from Daniel that there were angels and demons who were the spiritual powers charged with certain nations and peoples. It appears that Satan (Soton the shadow in Hebrew) was the prince of Persia and Michael was the archangel who was charged with the care over the People Israel.
Gabriel was the messenger to God's people as in Zechariah and Mary.
At the creation all the Angels of God shouted for Joy. (pre fall no doubt)
We know from Job that the angels presented themselves before God periodically, rather like the peers of the realm presenting themselves at the court of an earthly king. So the angels have some kind of responsibilities and they report in periodically. This must mean that they are constrained to operate within the temporal universe like we are.
Angels are not omnipotent, they don't know how the plan of salvation is going to work out, and they are very interested in watching it unford. They are desirous to look into the things of our salvation.
Some references indicate that some of them are the spiritual powers that have charge over the different heavenly bodies and stars.
It would appear that Lucifer was the angel in charge of Light before he rebelled and he is now the prince of earth and thus the guiadian demon of whatever secular power is in ascendency.
I know that the common idea is that the angels fell before man's fall, some cosmological doctrines rely on that but the only citations I've ever seen to support it are pagan myths and pseudopigriphacal documents. After 38 years of study I don't think that is established in scriptures at all.
Lately I've been thinking that the act of tempting Adam and Eve into spiritual adultery with him, effectively making him their god, was likely the act of pride and rebellion that was Lucifers rebellion and fall from Angelhood with the 1/3 of angels who followed him.
Just a few random thoughts. Don't know if man's existance is a credible issue, but it is clear from scripture that there are things about us that they don't know.
Write on Bro's and Sis'
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Post by dizzyjam on Dec 31, 2009 22:42:37 GMT -5
Fascinating, newburydave! I've never considered that when Lucifer tempted Adam and Eve was when he tried to make himself like God. That actually makes sense to a certain degree. I'd have to have more conversations with you though to fully understand things, but wow!, what a thought!
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Post by newburydave on Jan 10, 2010 15:48:31 GMT -5
It made sense to me when I started thinking of how Lucifer could have rebelled. It seems that humanity is of great interest both to God and to the Angels.
Since God made us attractive enough to beings of the heavenly sphere to be his bride I expect that Lucifer's jealousy was stirred up to try to steal us.
It's the old villain trying to steal the hero's girlfriend to prove he's really the big man in town story.
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Post by dizzyjam on Jan 10, 2010 21:06:44 GMT -5
Yet another good point! Still not sure about that being the time when he tried to make himself to be God, but I do like the way you're thinking about this. Very good thought processes there. You've given me quite a bit of food for thought in just a few simple sentences. Thank you, Dave.
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