The lack of moral norms... is it just me?

[marshwriter]

Hi all,
I'm finding myself in quite a predicament, one that has been building for some time. I can't stand the mass pop culture around me. The chart topping music, most films, most TV, you name it.
I spend most day cringing at the music playing on the radio at work - if it's not culgar or disgusting, it's full of cursing... etc.

Is it just me? Am I too touchy? Or are there others that also feel like this? Please tell me this is not all in my head!

Thanks,
Marsh

[morganlbusse]

No, you're not touchy, your just sensitive to the sinful world we live in. This is why Jesus came to die for us. We are lost, fallen, and dead and God in his great abundance came to rescue us.

When I see or hear things like what you are describing above, it breaks my heart because these people need God. Not so that they become morally better but because they are lost, they have no idea of how depraved and sinful they are. This is what spurs me on to share the gospel because I was once where they were: dead in my sins.

And then God rescued me

[beckyminor]

Welll said, morwena.

And no, Marsh, I don't think it's just you. It seems like the moral degradation of the world is picking up at a shocking pace, which could easily be tied to the decline of real faith in Western culture. It's a sad scene, but again, a reason to find ways to engage our culture and extend to them the beauty and purity of the gospel.

[waldenwriter]

I feel you, marshwriter. I cringe when people curse, especially when you're walking along and some weirdo is driving by with his car windows wide open blasting his music at high volume and the music has bad language in it or whatever. Once when that happened to me the song that was playing had the f-word like every other word. It's like, why, people?

I also am bothered by crude humor in general. I have been nominally involved in the YouTube fandub world for the 4-5 years I've been on YouTube, and I am surprised at the parody fandubs I've seen and how crude they are. Like all the "abridged series" of animes. I can't remember if littlekuriboh's "Yu-gi-oh: The Abridged Series" (the granddaddy of them all) was like that or not. But one that I find myself confronted with (because someone I follow on Twitter often tweets about it) is "Sailor Moon Abridged," or SMA as most fans call it. Not only is my favorite Sailor Moon character, Sailor Mercury, made fun of and basically ignored in it (that alone ought to make me hate it), but it is full of sexual innuendos, not-funny jokes about bulimia, and a fair amount of profanity. Yet I find myself watching it, unfortunately.

Also, as I posted on this forum before, I was unfortunately part of a fandub that in its third episode revealed its true dirty colors. While none of my lines (thankfully) were dirty, one very obviously dirty scene was enough to make me quit the fandub. It's my own fault, really; I knew that the girl directing the fandub had said herself she has a perverted mind, so I should've expected this all along. I have watched some of the other fandubs on her channel and they're all dirty. I'm surprised YouTube hasn't done something about it (but then the main thing they don't allow is porn, and her stuff is not porn).

Now granted not all anime fandubs are like this; there are some very good serious fandubs out there. One person commented that my fandub of a certain arc of the Sailor Moon live action made him wish that series would get dubbed officially. And nothing is wrong with parody; if done right it can be very funny and not offensive. The fan-made Harry Potter parody musical A Very Potter Musical did a pretty good job of not going over the line in this regard (though they may have had some crude jokes, I don't remember...but not too much). In fact, I have considered trying to do some sort of Sailor Moon parody myself, except that I have that sort of dry sense of humor that I don't think anyone will get.

Anyway, in short, I'm not into pop culture either; I never have been that into it. Even when I was in high school, when the Backstreet Boys, N*Sync, and Britney Spears were popular, I wasn't into them. Now the in people are Lady Gaga (who continues to do more shocking things and get away with it) and Justin Bieber, a teen boy with funny hair who seems to have no trouble getting a huge group of girls to like him even though he's not that attractive and may or may not have a great singing voice (I haven't heard his songs). I overheard one of the managers at my work the other day talking about how she came home and was shocked to find her 11-year-old daughter watching the video for Lady Gaga's song "Alejandro" (which, from what I've heard, is REALLY inappropriate). What is our world coming to?

And TV...isn't it sad that good shows don't always last that long, whereas shows built on stupid jokes, like The Simpsons, last forever? (The Simpsons just celebrated its 20th anniversary recently).

[Teskas]

There's nothing wrong with you, Marshwriter. We live at the end of a long epoch where the individual is the sole arbiter what is right and wrong. I've switched off pop music completely. I don't bother with most movies. I've canceled more than one magazine subscription. Most recently, I declined to renew Architectural Digest after they showed a famous entertainer's apartment. It was filled with images of death, including an aborted foetus. I was supposed to think this guy was hip and stylish.

But I think the magazine article, which gushed over him, was saying something without realizing it. We live in a culture which is in despair, and sees death as some sort of desirable exit.

The foul language is a way of expressing hatred. It is meant to deliberately repel others, thereby avoiding the building up of a community. Whether that community is a family, or a neighborhood, or a whole society.

Lady Gaga nauseates me. Not the person, but the persona. The saddest thing I saw recently was from Paris fashion week. A particular designer was showing his new collection. He was using marine diving techno fabrics to produce some innovative design. Some of the stuff was quite beautiful. Then, as his final ensemble, he had Ditta von Teese walk down the catwalk. He took his bow, and they turned and walked back up together. She was quite, quite bare from behind, in a bondage-porno sort of way. What struck me was how despite the smile, she looked stricken. I felt so, so sorry for her, and for all the money makers all over the world who are pushing this sort of thing as acceptable.

There's nothing wrong with you, Marshwriter. It's only you haven't drunk the cultural kool-aid, is all.

[tris]

It's interesting to see the fingers being pointed at the lost community and not at ourselves. When I read threads on Christian writing forums discussion the pros and cons of using the F-bomb, profanity in general and sexual situations in specific, is it any wonder the lost community is without direction and a moral compass?

[Divides the Waters]

I don't think that's necessarily it...consider the content in the Bible, and then reconsider why people wonder about the most effective way to reach a reader. But I do fully agree that we have lost our saltiness, and our light has somewhat dimmed.

I think that as with everything, it takes all sorts. There are those who are sensitive to the culture wars, and there are those who are nearly oblivious to them. I think that the real question is, to what extent does our sensitivity (or insensitivity) handicap us from doing what is right?

[thetruthwar]

Yeah you're definitely not alone on this one. I can't stand the secular music anymore, there is nothing good about it. I switched it off many years ago when God really touched my heart...

What saddens me more though is the influx of secularity into the Christian mindset. I see so many churches and 'christian claimers' now whose focus seems to be on being contemporary rather then being Godly. This mindset is also seeping in to Christian music, teaching etc and I have also turned off a lot of it.

[almarquardt]

Add another voice to yours, Marsh.

I quit listening to "Top 40" when I found myself singing to a rather raunchy song. It was so bad when I finally "heard" the words, I wanted to wash my mouth out with soap.

[marshwriter]

I am very glad to hear that I’m not the only one that feels like this!

I’ve still thought a lot about this in these past weeks. I must agree with some of the other posts, that I really dislike Lady Gaga’s music, I also dislike that genre – really not my cup of tea to begin with. Thankfully I don’t have any music channels at home, so my chances of seeing a music video is very slim. And yes, there are music that is popular that I like. And yes, I adore celtic and celtic folk music and probably know quite a few ‘drinking songs’, but I would rather listen to “Rose of Tralee” than, well… take your pick. I also won’t act like I only read (explicitly) Christian books, but there is definitely a line that I draw when it comes to what I read. I am sure everyone here also knows that you get fantasy and there’s fantasy and there’s fiction and fiction.

@ Walden: I know what you mean – I’ve also had a friend or two that you suddenly find out you didn’t really know at all… and that you can not be part of that which they are doing.

Something I am very thankful for in my upbringing, is that I was really taught from an early age by my mother and grandparents that there is right and wrong and that there are things that is just not done. A sense of honour also comes into play – you have to honour yourself, your family and God by what you are doing. We were always taught “jou woord is jou eer” (your word is you honour) and that honour, which encompasses so many things, including respect, is VERY important. One of my Sunday school teachers once told us – if you’re somewhere (e.g. out with friends) and you’d feel guilty to have your Bible there, YOU probably shouldn’t be there. And if you one day have children, would you want them to know about what you did in your “younger” days?

Of course no one is perfect, and no Christian is perfect either, but that doesn’t mean you should take all the beauty out of life and pump it full of materialism, lust, etc. etc. And I really do not see what the argument “but it’s the 21st century” has to do with anything? Shouldn’t we, as humans, rather know better by now?

[newburydave]

Jesus said that "out of the heart the Mouth speaks."

A German friend of mine once told me that the German Bible says "whatever fills your heart overflows into your speech."

So it's not surprising at the foulness of the "art" produced by deeply fallen men and women. Many of them are several generations removed from the last great moving on God's Spirit on western and US society.

I for one feel that it is not we who are to be the Salt and Light because in our own strength we can't be. Rather it is the fullness of the Spirit of Christ within us that makes us Salt and Light by convincing the world around us of what is right and wrong and the fact that we are all going to be brought to judgement before God who is Holy.

We live in a neo-pagan world. Most people you meet don't really have a background of living Christian teaching or example. All they have is the popular culture parodies of Christianity as nothing but hypocrisy.

It seems to me that our job is to be living examples of what true Christianity is and engage our pagan friends and acquaintances in dialog about basic spiritual reality in ways they can understand. Like Paul who reasoned with the Roman ruler:

Act 24:25 NIrV Paul talked about how to live right. He talked about how people should control themselves. He also talked about the time when God will judge everyone. Then Felix became afraid. "That's enough for now!" he said. "You may leave. When I find the time, I will send for you."

I grew up in the 1950's and 1960's. Society was still under the influence of the great post WWII world wide revival of Christianity and we were taught largely Christian principles even in the secular schools. I was part of the generation that rejected those truths and norms.

There was another great stirring of God during the late 1960's and early 1970's (when my wife and I met Jesus), but since then there has been a steady slide back into paganism.

Most Americans that I deal with today, even in the Church, are too young to remember those times of revival and the moving of God. So another thing we can do is to pray that God will send another great moving of his Spirit on our parts of the world. Only he can really lift the whole of human society into the realm of decency and Christian civilization.

He has to change a lot of hearts to uplift society, but I've seen him do it. Let's pray that He'll do it again.

SGD
dave

[almarquardt]

First off, I love your posts, Dave. Your words are simultaneously informative and uplifting. Thank you.

Back to the subject: Having grown up in the 80s, I've never seen a revival on a national scale. Heck, my teenage rebellion was going to church! My parents were atheists at the time. No longer, praise Jesus!

Whether or not there will be another revival like you describe is not something I can predict. However, I completely agree that we should show Christ to those around us. We may not be able to change the world individually, but, with the Holy Spirit's help, we can at least save our little part of it.

[newburydave]

Thank you for your kind words. I try, with Him helping me. It sounds like you had your own personal resurrection and revival, Praise God!! ;D

We may not see another sweeping move of God, but we can seek Him and walk close enough to Him to keep our own souls revived.

Jesus said of we who would believe on Him, "out of their in most being will flow Rivers of living water to bless the ends of the Earth."

Only the vast reaches of eternity will be able to reveal the full effects on this world of one person who truly consecrates themselves to live for God and lives in the sanctifying fullness of the Holy Ghost. When Jesus said Rivers he was talking about all the Big rivers from around the world.

Just think of that. The small spring doesn't see the mighty Mississippi, or Nile, or Ganges; but the great river flows from the small spring. Thus it is with God's spiritual rivers; ; we are the small springs through whom He pleases to pour out His rivers of healing grace and resurrection mercy, into this world. We may not always see the mighty result, but He said it so it must be so.

Just keep on living and believing; keep encouraged in Him while we wait his coming. Our redemption draws near, the Bridegroom comes . . . .

SGD
dave

[Hisart]

Signs of the times = the end is near, Look Up!

Heard an evangelist say about the "Rapture", he said to grab a sinner under each arm and preach on your way up. If they don't hear your words, maybe the fall will scare the H--- out of them and they'll enter heaven right behind you! LOL

May not be gospel, but it's close!

[marshwriter]

@ Hisart - sounds like a good idea!

I've also heard the joke of a preacher telling the congregation that there will be a "gnashing of teeth" and when one man laughs because he doesn't have any teeth left, the preacher says "And those that doesn't have teeth will be supplied with them!"

I've been thinking and praying and reading a lot about this problem the last while. And then I discovered that I am not the only one feeling like this! Probably one of the most difficult things to do is to explain your POV without having people make you out to be a nut. At least, that's how I perceive it.

Marsh