Fantasy Races: to Tolkien or not to Tolkien

[rwley]

Ah, the blonde has emerged once again, unbidden. I read "shoats" and thought "stoats". Stoats are similar to weasels. Shoats are piglets as strangewind explained. As I said, the blonde emerges now and then and speaks without consulting me. She shouldn't do that. She's usually wrong! I'll have to give a good talking to, again.

[Teskas]

Remember, rwley, blondes never have to apologize and never have to explain. That's the beauty of being blonde.

[strangewind]

Besides, that gave me an idea for these as-yet unnamed creatures:

The nefarious D'oh!

[JC Lamont]

I think this is sort of on topic -- Is the "Dark Lord" overdone? It seems so to me, so I call my main villian the Black King. Is that just as bad, or is that a good call?

[Divides the Waters]

I'm not sure. I think it's borderline, but then it really does go to the issue of "iconic" vs. "cliche."

Here's a thought. You could almost go the opposite route. The Celtic sidhe were called "the fair folk" and "the gentle people" out of fear and hope that terms of respect would get them to leave you alone. An ironic title like "The Good King" or "Our Great Ruler" might be telling in its own way.

[mongoose]

Speaking of which, wasn't the head guy in North Korea called the "Great leader?"

I'm also reminded of Jack O'Neil's description of Anubis. Something like, "You know? The Cliche, over the top, bad guy in the oversized black cloak and hood."

[myrthman]

It sure would introduce some irony to call him the White King. Like a chess piece in dress and demeanor but black as sin at heart. (Is sin black?) Might allow for some guesswork for your characters on who the villain really is. Reminds me of the White Queen of Narnia. Not a bad idea, Divides.

I guess the issue at heart is this: does there need to be a single, nearly-all-powerful villain for characters to defeat or run from or whatever? Does Batman really need the Joker (Heath Ledger rawks, btw) or Two-Face or Catwoman or the Penguin or Scarecrow or any of them? Or does he just need a city swamped with crime and criminals run amok? I think the answer depends on the power of your hero(es). I mean how many times can we watch the dark knight beat up on a gang of minor thugs before we get bored? I think the ubervillain is a must in fiction of such types, if only to balance out the main character(s).

However, if you're telling a different kind of story, say man v. nature, then the natural world, in a sense, becomes your ubervillain. I'm starting to ramble so I'll stop now.

[Spokane Flyboy]

I think the heart of the matter is the fact that such a king would be called many things. To himself and his cohorts, he may be "The White King, Savior of the Kingdom" while to those he mercilessly slaughters for not paying homage to him would call him the "Black King, Butcher of Innocents". Think of Saddam Hussein. His supporting few loved him and even fought long after he disappeared. The rest hated him to some form.

[Divides the Waters]

Myrthman, if I recall correctly, most references to sin as a color refer to it as "scarlet."

[CastleLyons]

Wow, Divides, I had never thought of that, but you're exactly right. I just did a search of the word "black" in the NIV and the KJV and sure enough, the word is never used to describe sin. But "scarlet" and "crimson" are. However, people in today's American culture probably wouldn't get it if you called him "The Scarlet King." Sounds too much like "The Scarlet Letter." Maybe that fits, though... :-)

[Divides the Waters]

*nods* Well, you can thank Randy Alcorn for calling that to my attention (read DOMINION), and in my latest re-read through the Bible, I have found him to be absolutely correct. The association of sin with shed blood is vivid and consistent.

Incidentally, one of the names of the evil race in my novel is "The Glorious." As you can see, I took a page from folklore, myself.

[reyldan]

I've been puzzled by this copycat issue lately. I agree with the notion of altering your races to fit the story. Tolkien adapted his elves and dwarves to his liking, you can do the same by keeping the basic qualities of these people but modifying them to your hearts content. In my own story, for example, I try to convey a decaying world in which legendary beings such as these are virtually extinct and therefore don't come into the story very often. That way I don't risk my strain of few remaining elves being associated with the "typical elf".

[myrthman]

So I've made a decision on this topic. I'm going to use similar beings that are changed enough to be unique yet reminiscent of Tolkien's (and others') work and give them names that are significant to my story.

The Haor are mountain and cave dwelling smiths, architects, priests. They are short but muscular and prefer using axes and hammers in battle.

The Yaam are seafaring explorers and pirates. They are tall and thin and long-lived if not immortal and are experts at bow/arrow and harpoon.

The Kaahre are very small time-travelers and library workers. They like daggers and slings.

The above are the Seedling Races. They were planted as ideas by the creator figure. Then there are the Elaan: the favored race made in the creator's own image, meant to be kings and leaders. But of course, they're quite a bit less than that because they have yet to figure out how to rely on the wisdoms of the three Seedling Races. Meanwhile, dragons run amok and PC has a spiritual journey, meeting some critters too unique to classify into a whole race.

Your thoughts and ideas are coveted. And appreciated.

[dizzyjam]

Shoot, this was such a long topic I decided to read a couple of posts at the beginning and skim the last page. Wow! Hey, did anybody ever mention that Spock and the Vulcans were the elves of Star Trek? If not, then I do now! Hah-hah! Anyway, another day I'll have to come back here and read some more. I liked the concept of this topic. Blessings to you myrthman, and may your story turn out great!

David

[dizzyjam]

Aug 8, 2008 8:05:43 GMT -5 CastleLyons said:

Wow, Divides, I had never thought of that, but you're exactly right. I just did a search of the word "black" in the NIV and the KJV and sure enough, the word is never used to describe sin. But "scarlet" and "crimson" are. However, people in today's American culture probably wouldn't get it if you called him "The Scarlet King." Sounds too much like "The Scarlet Letter." Maybe that fits, though... :-)

Maybe that's why Stephen King's main bad guy in the Dark Tower series was named the Crimson King.