For the church or the Church

[metalikhan]

Before I start, I want to differentiate "church" as meaning individual churches and congregations and "Church" meaning the Bride of Christ.

Scripture gives us the Great Commandment and the Great Commission. As followers of Christ, we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit and are individually gifted to do such work for the Kingdom that God has in His design for us.

On any Sunday, you can hear pastors and ministers berating their congregations for not being involved enough in church activities and volunteer needs, for being "pew potatoes". And though there may be some members who need to hear that admonishment, there are many more who are doing much outside of their churches, giving and doing their work for the Church.

Do a majority pastors and ministers not recognize that many of those they regard as "pew potatoes" are actually there to worship, to fellowship with other believers, to be refreshed in the presence of their fellows so they can go back out into the world and pour themselves out again? Is service within the confines of the individual church the only thing that matters to them? Do they need to categorize and quantify what each member is doing for the Church? Are they required to measure what each member does with his/her time, talent, and treasure?

Many believers who obey what the Holy Spirit leads and gifts them to do often do so with Jesus' words from Matthew 6: 1-4 in mind.
"Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of people, to be seen by them. Otherwise, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven. So whenever you give to the poor, don't sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be applauded by people. I assure you: They've got their reward! But when you give to the poor, don't let your left hand know what your right hand is doing so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you."

IMO, the churches don't need more celebrities to flaunt. "Look who we've got in our congregation." The vanity inherent in having church celebrities sometimes has the feel of idolatry even though lip-service is carefully paid to credit God. And the celebrity-ism too often seems used as a prod, a flog to remind everyone else that they aren't involved enough in church work, they aren't bold enough in evangelizing or loud enough in worshiping.

To me, the celebrity-ism and the dearth of encouragement for the quiet workers of the Church is disturbing. But should each of the quiet workers be shouting out what they're doing and where so the leadership can be assured they themselves are effective in pastoring and leading the churches to the benefit of the Church?

Am I missing or not understanding something critical as a follower of Christ?

[isabeau]

I'm curious where you're getting your information from. I've been a Christian for over 30 years. I haven't encountered what you're talking about, and I've been in churches of various denominations from coast to coast and many points in between.

I know pastors get disappointed that members aren't more actively involved in church, but I have never heard any pastor berate his congregation from the pulpit. In fact, the pastors I've sat under have done just the opposite and praised the congregation for the work they're doing both in the church and in the community, even when it's a minority that's doing the majority of work. And I have never been in a church that sought celebrity status or looked to flaunt someone in their congregation, and then hold them up as a means of shaming the rest of the congregation.

In the churches I've been involved in over the years (and in seminary), the quiet workers are not only appreciated and encouraged, they are very well known to the church leaders without having to say a word. It's the quiet ones who usually do the behind-the-scenes work that is necessary to keep the church functioning, and the leaders know that.

If this is occurring in your church or a church you know about, I'm sure it's coloring your worldview, but I think it is a hasty generalization to assume it is a widespread phenomenon in the Church.

Of course, it's equally possible that I've only been involved with/heard of healthy churches (I would not qualify the church/church leaders that you describe as healthy).

[raregem]

I'm with isabeau, I've not run into anything like what you're describing. Being military, we've moved around quite a bit and I've attended several churches. I've never heard any pastor berate his parishoners. I also agree that is possibly a sign of an unhealthy church.

That being said, I have heard a call for help when it is needed...which in some churches is quite often if the minority is doing the majority. The needs of the Church are important, but that doesn't mean the needs of the church are not. A church can only thrive and train up on the services of its own.

[birdnerd]

metalikhan
I know exactly what you're talking about, but less of a harangue and more of a "use your gifts" kind of lecture.

There are some apparent pew potatoes who are actually very active behind the scenes. They handle the grunt work in a quiet way. No problem. Often, the pastor or at least key members of the staff know exactly who these people are, and their work is much appreciated.

There are a lot of pew potatoes, though, who occupy the bench for 60 minutes then they've done their bit for the week and they're done. In many of the churches I've attended, 90% of the work is done by 10% of the people (including the "silent partners" who work behind the scenes) and most just keep a chair warm and gripe about how things should be working but aren't.

As long as people are doing _something constructive_ with their gifts, then all's well in the church.

I am happy to say that the teeny little church I play in ... everyone who can be active is active. We have a handful of very senior citizens who ... if they make it to church on Sunday ... there is much rejoicing because we know how much effort that took. Some have gifts that are blatantly obvious ... like the pianist and organist ... and others help out with all kinds of other behind-the-scenes stuff like bookkeeping and folding the bulletins. It all works out.

[Bainespal]

I think I understand Metalikhan's question. To what extent must we be involved with our specific congregations as part of the Christian life? For instance, must we volunteer to teach Sunday school classes -- or even attend Sunday school -- when Sunday school is an entirely extra-Biblical tradition that many local churches starting practicing only in the past hundred fifty years or so? If we seek to live Christ sincerely before all our acquaintances and contacts, sharing our faith when we have the opportunity, do we necessarily have to be involved with formal evangelism teams from the local church that go around our home town?

I wouldn't say there's all that much berating going on in my own church. Most of the "berating" is about coming to attend Sunday service at all, and about giving tithes, etc. However, I remember once, a long time ago, the now-retired pastor said something to the effect that the Sunday Christians come to service once a week, but the real Christians are the ones who show up for Wednesday night Bible study. Surely it is good to study the Bible and to pray and to experience true fellowship with other believers, but how can we as free Christians be bound to attend a certain meeting in order to prove our sincerity, even if only to ourselves? Surely Wednesday night Bible study isn't specially ordained of God, not above any time two or three Christians gather together in their Lord's name, even when the gathering is not an event and has nothing to do with the local church.

If anyone knows the answer to these questions, I am listening!

[metalikhan]

@isabeau and raregem: Most of this question is based on personal observation. I, too, have lived all over the country and attended many different denominations of churches with varying degrees of my own participation, including church staff work.

@bainspal: Don't know that there are any answers aside from obeying the Holy Spirit's guidance. But it becomes difficult when you attempt to balance it against the idea of unity with our fellow believers and submission to the authority of our church leaders.

**sigh** And according to that retired pastor, I wouldn't qualify as a real Christian. I don't get off work in time to go to Wednesday night Bible studies and prayer meets. When I worked nights, it wasn't even an option I could attempt. My bad.

Mar 7, 2011 19:13:10 GMT -5 birdnerd said:

metalikhan
There are a lot of pew potatoes, though, who occupy the bench for 60 minutes then they've done their bit for the week and they're done. In many of the churches I've attended, 90% of the work is done by 10% of the people (including the "silent partners" who work behind the scenes) and most just keep a chair warm and gripe about how things should be working but aren't.

birdnerd: Another phrase I've heard for it is "getting your Sunday ticket punched". Yeah, unfortunately, that's a reality, too.


Perhaps the term "berate" was too strong for some of them but not all. Still, I've heard enough pointed sermons about serving that I can't help but wonder. And yes, there are many churches where 90% of the work is done by 10% of the people. There seems to be an alarming attitude of entitlement rather than gratitude even among believers. Every church needs its volunteers for the many operations and ministries within each church; and every church has its difficulties in getting or keeping its volunteers.

But — at one church that had major renovations done to the building, the leadership thanked the congregation for the financial giving to make it possible and thanked the people who set up the sound system for the music. No mention was made of workers (sheetrockers, painters, licensed electricians, plumbers) who donated hours and hours of labor or the businessmen who donated both labor and materials for the project.

At a few churches, you were nobody unless you were a speaker or a singer. There was the strong implication that the speakers and song leaders were more blessed, more spiritually attuned than the volunteers changing diapers in the nursery, serving coffee, or keeping the restrooms clean. Every one of those churches had trouble getting and keeping enough volunteers to work the nursery, the coffee shop, the janitorial needs, or even folding the Sunday bulletins.

One church started a Sunday evening service for the 20-30 year old crowd but couldn't get volunteers to work in the nursery even on a rotation basis. The pastor was overheard saying that the old fogies who attended the morning services should come back and do the work but probably wouldn't because the music was too loud. Maybe he was right; but a good number of those old fogies were struggling in survival mode as they supported boomerang children, raised grandchildren, and/or cared for elderly/infirm parents. To me, this sounded like heaping extra burdens on those already groaning under crushing weight.

There was an elderly woman who joined one church. She knitted baby blankets, booties, children's' socks and sweaters; and once a month took them over 100 miles away to the nearest women's shelter. Although the church's leadership knew what she did, there was no acknowledgment of her faithful labors during the 2 years while I attended that church.

One church discontinued its Saturday evening service, and encouraged the people who attended it to go to an affiliated church (out of town) with a Sat service or to one of the Sunday services. Why was it surprising that the church lost over half of that service's congregation? Many of them had jobs (a majority in service-type jobs — hospital, law enforcement, etc.) that didn't allow them to attend other services nor would their hours allow for volunteer work during the times when the church needed volunteers.

Such believers in Christ aren't "pew potatoes" or "ticket-punchers" — they pour themselves out daily and come into the Lord's presence to worship, fellowship, and be refreshed. They serve the Church no less than the people serving in a church; yet because they aren't involved in a church's needs, they can never expect acknowledgement of what they do as ambassadors for Christ in their particular calling.

And in a different arena, there are believers lead to volunteer for something their own church is not involved with. They follow the guidance of the Holy Spirit for their lives. They don't thump their chests and say "Look what I'm doing for God." They don't seek applause or celebrity status, but neither can they expect support or encouragement as valuable members of the Church from their own pastor or church family.

If this was all in one church, I would agree that it's a very unhealthy church. But I've seen these and similar scenarios repeated in too many churches, enough so that I wonder if there's an unhealthy trend, if cultural attitudes have impacted the churches rather than the churches impacting the culture. Should more of the quiet workers become vocal about what they do with their time, talent, and treasure? Do they need to defend themselves from their own leaders and their own brothers and sisters in Christ?

Dang, sometimes it's tough to be salt!

[morganlbusse]

I guess I see the other side of the issue. I can't say this for other pastors, but I watch my husband on his knees every week for our congregation, asking God which direction our church should go. He also reads books and attends conferences, both to refresh himself (its hard work being a pastor) and to learn. Its not much different than us writers, eh?

Its a tough job and many pastors are doing their best. They receive very little encouragement and feel the burden when people sin, people leave, or no one volunteers. If they forget to acknowledge someone, at least in the case of my husband, it was simply a human error. He has so much on his mind and plate with so many people making demands on him that he can feel overwhelmed sometimes.

Yes, there are problems in the church, but one thing I'm learning more and more is to pray. Pray for your pastor, your leaders, and for the congregation. Particularly for your pastor (guess I'm biased since I'm married to one and watch him everyday ).

[metalikhan]

The writer comparison is a good one, morwena.

I do think there are more churches like the one your husband leads. I don't mean to sound like those other churches are the only ones where I've attended or participated. What I referred to may be more of a problem with larger churches because of the anonymity that occurs in congregations over, say, 500 people; the pastor(s) and leadership may simply be too insulated from the congregation to know what each member is doing. I've done volunteer work in churches where the pastor(s) couldn't have picked me out of a line-up in three tries. I also suspect the burnout rate for pastors is as great as it is for any other caregiver, but the spiritual dimension to their calling makes them vulnerable in ways a secular vocation doesn't.

**grin** And (not picking on you, morwena, but you do have some inside insight), I'd like to ask if pastors like your husband might feel more encouraged, more effective in their leadership if they knew what was quietly going on with their people. They feel the pressure of their church operations; but they're also outfitting believers for serving the Church and obeying the Great Commission. For example, they may worry that, yeah, we're short-handed for our Single Moms' Ministry and our Sunday greeters haven't been able to rotate for two months; but over here eight of our people regularly do volunteer yard-work and errands for their elderly/infirm neighbors. And here's a trio who gather, repair, and deliver clothing for an inner city mission. And here's a couple actively involved with prison ministry. And here's a gent who spends hours on-line, instant message praying with soldiers on the other side of the world. And here ... And here ...

Just as there are writers lead to write for the edification of the Church and writers lead to write for the secular world, so there are also people lead to serve within their church and people lead to serve the Church outside of any particular church. But that brings me back to the question of whether the people who are serving, whether it's for the church or for the Church, need to be more vocal about how they serve and where. Do they adhere to Matt 6:1-4 or do they share their manner of service with their pastors and church family? There are Scriptures that seem to support the latter, too.

And you're right about lifting our church leaders in prayer. Intercessory and support prayer for the pastor(s) of a church is one of the early things I learned about praying over 40 years ago. I still do.

[metalikhan]

Total aside -- I really do know the difference between lead and led. Chalk that gaffe up to the hour I was writing.

[waldenwriter]

Some churches do try to get people involved in some way or another. The church I've been going to all my life promotes its home Bible study groups heavily. It gets on my nerves, actually, because with work and school it's become difficult for me to get involved in such a group (especially since I don't have a car).

While there is nothing wrong with people using their gifts, whether spiritual gifts or natural gifts, to serve the church, I think that those gifts can be used outside the church as well. It reminds me of something I heard recently - that we can serve God even if we're not in full-time ministry. (This is from this Bible study called "Springboard," a study meant for graduating college seniors about to enter the workplace, that I'm doing with someone from Chi Alpha Christian Fellowship, an on-campus group). I believe that.

I have felt guilty about not being involved in church since I stopped working in Sunday School after serving for about 5 years and getting burnt out. (I'm not sure why I got burnt out, but I think part of it was that I felt I was being an inconvenience to my parents by having to be at church on the Sundays I worked, since at that point they had started going to a different church). But especially since my current job sometimes requires me to work on Sunday, it would be hard for me to do that anyway. (Lately, though, my work has given me Sundays off because they pay us an extra $1/hour on Sundays, and apparently I make too much for them to be able to afford me working on Sundays). And also, to make things more convenient for my parents, I have been going to church with them at a different church than the one I was going to, so that complicates things.

[Bainespal]

But what can the church actually do about our goals and labors that we believe are our callings and service to God? For instance, is the pastor going to preach out of one of our latest Christian speculative fiction novels? Do you want the church to organize a special small group for people who want to talk about the Christian application of fantasy and science fiction? Something like that might be practical in a few churches, but probably not in very many.

On the other hand, I know that it is important for us not to hide our service, or calling, or whatever it should be lead. I suppose we need the support of other believers not to abandon our efforts, and also no to compromise them. For me, this has been very difficult. For years, I have been too afraid to tell my Christian friends about what I was really into -- something that I mourned the lack of a Christian influence in and felt called to provide. It's very hard to talk about your goals when nobody else knows anything about the subject, at least for me.

[Kristen]

Wow. I never realized how fortunate I am. I've only been in two churches as an adult, and I've never run into any of this stuff, other than hearing some sermons on "you have gifts ... use 'em!" (Actually, I preached one of those myself, now that I think about it.) Those sermons need preaching, because not everyone realizes they even have a gift. But such preaching needs to be informative and encouraging, not berating. You can't motivate people by belittling them.

Christians must deploy their gifts. The local congregation is a good place to do that, because you get with other Christians who know you and can sometimes spot your gift before you do. I thought my pastor was crazy when he suggested I teach. I thought I was too impatient to teach. But I got the hang of it, and now consider it an important part of my ministry.

But our ministry doesn't have to be in the local congregation. Where would we be without missionaries and others whose calling is outside the walls of the church? What's critical is that we use our gifts to serve people and edify the Body of Christ.

If anyone feels they are being berated for not doing church work, or ignored when they are doing church work, they need to talk through the matter with a deacon or small group leader. In our church, each committee chair sees that his or her workers get the appreciation they deserve. Although really, the Father sees what we do. That matters more than any human kudos.

And as a Sunday school teacher, I have to say ... yes, it's important to study the Bible. But if you can't make it to your congregation's scheduled classes, and can't find another group to meet with, look up a commentary at biblestudytools.com and study on your own. As with serving, what matters is not where or when you do it, but that you do it.

[pixydust]

Uhg...we have this problem in our church right now. It really wears on me...more like the "privileged class" is what we have. The more educated, the more you flaunt yourself--the more they allow you to do "for the Lord" in church. It's weird. Why can't the body focus on what Jesus focused on (like the lady that you said made the blankets)? Feed the poor, care for the sick, and love the unloved. It's not about getting butts in the seats it about getting butts into the STREETS.

Oi...I could rant all day on this one...