Formating Quotes

[yoda47]

So I've been doing some critting over at the Sandbox, and the different ways people format dialog quotes has got me to wondering if I'm formatting them correctly.

I'll be the first to admit I don't know everything, so for the sake of me giving better crits (and for my own writing...) let's talk about how to use quote marks.

If you have a comment, please state a source (if you can remember one... if not, fire away anyway.)

My understanding is quotes are formatted like the following (examples from the as-of-yet unwritten third book in my Guardian Chronicles series (unwritten because I really should be editing the first two...). I apologize in advance for the crudeness and other mistakes in the following examples):

The way I understood "Self-Editing for Fiction Writers" is that lines of dialog should be on their own line (exceptions coming, hang in there...):

---
"What the?"
Abigail stopped short as soon as she entered the engineering section of the Smelly Fish.
"This thing seriously has toggle switches?"
---

I've seen that type of example ran together sometimes. My understanding is that you would put those all in the same paragraph (NOT put each piece of dialog on it's own line) only if it's a beat, an action tag used to control pacing and show motion that occurs at the same time as the dialog, like this:

---
"Ug." Abigail reached out and used two fingers to gingerly lift a stained rag from the control console. "How long has this been here?" she asked, holding the rag well away from her.
---

In fact, the above example probably isn't the most pure example of how to use a beat either.

So, am I totally wrong, partly wrong? Any other quote/dialog formatting comments for situations that I wanted to talk about but totally forgot?

[j2starshine]

I was under the understanding that when you changed speaker, you changed lines, but if the same person is speaking you would keep it together in the paragraph...the exception to that would be if the speaker was long winded

in Self-Editing for Fiction writers, the last paragraph says:"And start a new paragraph whenever you have new speaker...It's often a good idea to start a new paragraph for dialogue that follows a beat or bit of description..." when you've changed speakers that is.

Is there a right or wrong way about it? I think all three examples work unless the reader gets confused about who is doing the talking. I don't think it would be necessary in your first example to have the second line of dialogue off to its self...it seems kind of lonely and lost

anyways...one thing I'd like to add about dialogue is to RUE as is explained in SEFFW. When we have to use a adverb to tell us how the speaker is feeling, then our dialogue is weak.

[yoda47]

Ah, yup, different speakers. That was the one I was forgetting.

And now that you mention it, that first example is more beat-like. I had in my head where the same person is talking, but says something, there's some description or some other non-dialog part, then the same person says something different. (That's what I get for putting down a half-fleshed out thought while trying to do my day-job at the same time...)
This is why we edit and don't send out first drafts. Oh well, I'll gladly look silly if I can learn something.

I had in mind something more like this:

(All lumped together):

---
"Oh, this is even worse than I thought," Abigail said as she stepped into what passed for the engineering section on the Smelly Fish. Filthy rags were spread out across the floor and tools were scattered around the room. One whole control panel was covered in toggle switches -- toggle switches! -- Abigail couldn't believe it. She'd expected a stolen pirate ship to be, well, not exactly top of the line, but... "Where to start?" she asked herself as she headed over to the master systems display board.
---

(same scene, more separation of dialog):

---
"Oh, this is even worse than I thought," Abigail said as she stepped into what passed for the engineering section on the Smelly Fish.

Filthy rags were spread out across the floor and tools were scattered around the room. One whole control panel was covered in toggle switches -- toggle switches! -- Abigail couldn't believe it. She'd expected a stolen pirate ship to be, well, not exactly top of the line, but...

"Where to start?" she asked herself as she headed over to the master systems display board.
---

(Note that I'd use a tabstop instead of a new line in the second example if the board would let me...)

The second way is the same thing, the same person is talking, same short sentences, without another speaker, but I think the second way looks better and is easier to read.

I've seen both ways of doing this... What say you? (let's just ignore the other numerous errors I'm sure are in there... this particular story is still in the imagineeering stage. I've literally only thought about it on long car trips and such.. Can you tell it's dying to get out? ... Anyway....)

[Kessie]

I like your second example better. The various thoughts each have their own paragraph, even though it's still the same person speaking. You might also separate the beats into their own sentences. As they are now, they kind of make me gasp for breath after I've read them aloud. They're kind of long.

"Oh, this is even worse than I thought," Abigail said. She stepped into what passed for the engineering section on the Smelly Fish.

...

She headed over to the master systems display board. "Where to start?"


Some dialogue formatting seems to be stylistic. It's all about clarity, I think. Where might someone find a guide to dialogue formatting? The latest edition of Elements of Style?

[yoda47]

Thats kinda the reason for this post, I'm getting the feeling there might be a little more art to it than just rule...

[newburydave]

One of the chief editors over at Baen was absolute death on what he called "confounded" paragraphs. His definition of a CP was one that contained both dialog, attribution tags (he said) and action.

Ever since I got beaten soundly over that at in the Baen's Bar slushpiles I've seperated them assiduously.

IMHO it makes it clearer and easier to understand for the reader and that is far more important to an author than making some musty old gramarian happy.

I think the disgruntled Baen editor may have been keying in on the fundamental reason for paragraphs. A paragraph starts with a "topic sentence", right? Well, it seems logical to my simple mind that when the "topic" changes you need a new paragraph. Not to be too nit picky, but a statement is not the same thing as action. We all know the dreaded gaffe "A Tom Swifty" ("I like that", he said gobbling down more of it.) It occurs to me that if we mix dialog and action, not only do we confuse the reader, mix topics, but we also create "mature" Tom Swifties" using complete sentences instead of mashing it all together.

Just a though. I couldn't find anything about it in my authoritative grammar guide, "English Grammar for Dummies".

SGD
dave


(grammer;.... shudder )

[metalikhan]

One rule of thumb is to study what's already printed by the place where you want to submit your work. Editorial preference will play a role. Be prepared to tailor your work accordingly.

But don't sacrifice clarity. When you have one speaker talking to herself/himself, it's a different matter than when there are more. I 've seen too many stories in which it became impossible even considering the context to tell who was saying what. Often, there was the additional complication of using pronouns for two or more speakers of the same gender s/he rather than identifying them by name.

Consider this camoflaged opening to a short story.
Setting: three friends are in a kitchen, one has a serious problem.

Karen scooted her chair closer to the table.
"Seriously? You think you're a wererat?"
Sally swirled the coffee in her cup.
"It's more than the mess."
Jane reached for the cabinet door.
"You're just inventing excuses for being a klepto."
Sally looked up from her cup.
"There's a problem with the klepto idea."
"Do tell."
Karen's eyes narrowed.
"It's more than the shiny stuff."
"What? The shredded paper? strings? broken plastic? Then you're just a hoarder."
Jane opened the cabinet door, flinched, and closed it quickly.
"No. Hair."
Sally sipped her coffee and set the cup down carefully.
"Hair?"
Jane shivered.
"My hair. Rat hair."
Sally shifted in her chair. Her eyes met Karen's.
"Hair half mine and half rat."

Can you tell who's saying what? Who has the wererat problem?
Just going by the order of the lines can't help. They can be combined in various ways.

Karen scooted her chair closer to the table. "Seriously? You think you're a wererat?"
Sally swirled the coffee in her cup.
"It's more than the mess." Jane reached for the cabinet door.
"You're just inventing excuses for being a klepto."
Sally looked up from her cup.
"There's a problem with the klepto idea."
"Do tell." Karen's eyes narrowed.
"It's more than the shiny stuff."
"What? The shredded paper? strings? broken plastic? Then you're just a hoarder."
Jane opened the cabinet door, flinched, and closed it quickly. "No. Hair."
Sally sipped her coffee and set the cup down carefully. "Hair?"
Jane shivered. "My hair. Rat hair."
Sally shifted in her chair. Her eyes met Karen's.
"Hair half mine and half rat."

Or

Karen scooted her chair closer to the table. "Seriously? You think you're a wererat?"
Sally swirled the coffee in her cup. "It's more than the mess."
Jane reached for the cabinet door. "You're just inventing excuses for being a klepto."
Sally looked up from her cup. "There's a problem with the klepto idea."
"Do tell." Karen's eyes narrowed.
"It's more than the shiny stuff."
"What? The shredded paper? strings? broken plastic? Then you're just a hoarder." Jane opened the cabinet door, flinched, and closed it quickly.
"No. Hair." Sally sipped her coffee and set the cup down carefully.
"Hair?"
Jane shivered.
"My hair. Rat hair." Sally shifted in her chair. Her eyes met Karen's. "Hair half mine and half rat."

Or

Karen scooted her chair closer to the table.
"Seriously? You think you're a wererat?" Sally swirled the coffee in her cup.
"It's more than the mess."
Jane reached for the cabinet door. "You're just inventing excuses for being a klepto."
Sally looked up from her cup.
"There's a problem with the klepto idea."
"Do tell."
Karen's eyes narrowed. "It's more than the shiny stuff."
"What? The shredded paper? strings? broken plastic? Then you're just a hoarder." Jane opened the cabinet door, flinched, and closed it quickly.
"No. Hair."
Sally sipped her coffee and set the cup down carefully. "Hair?"
Jane shivered.
"My hair. Rat hair."
Sally shifted in her chair. Her eyes met Karen's.
"Hair half mine and half rat."

So, the wererat could be Karen or Jane or Sally. Each version also reveals slight differences in the characters' personalities. Even the POV isn't entirely clear.

Make sure your reader can identify who's saying what. If an individual publisher/editor prefers no dialog in the same paragraph as action/description, be flxible enough to revise for that particular one. But bear in mind a great many others may not prefer quotes formatted that way.

Strive for clarity.

[mldonovan]

All excellent points!!! Thanks guys!!!
Lynn