|
Post by Jeff Gerke on May 8, 2008 21:19:53 GMT -5
Well put, Strangewind.
But...wow, where did all that come from? LOL. Love it!
Jeff
|
|
|
Post by Divides the Waters on May 8, 2008 23:49:50 GMT -5
Have you read the doctrine of divorce by John Milton (Paradise Lost)? He makes some interesting points.
|
|
|
Post by mongoose on May 10, 2008 0:13:26 GMT -5
And paul said to rejoice in the Lord always, and that he counts it all joy when he is persecuted. The above post doesn't address what forgiveness IS, so my question remains: Clearly, few people will say that God wants me to sit down across from the one who stabbed me, and give them a knife. Whether or not the Bible encourages that kind of attitude toward the wrong doer, very few would be willing to practice it, so very few would teach it. But what DOES forgiveness entail? The poster says that you CAN forive and still be satisfied by justice. But SHOULD we be so? Or should we, like the Father, desire that NONE perish, not even those that wronged us? Should we not bless them, truly wishing praying the best upon them? And if we love and bless and forgive them, why would we not, as instructed in the Bible, feed, clothe, visit, and otherwise minister to their needs? I'm not determined that this IS what God has called us to as Christians, but it is what I'm seeing Paul and Jesus teaching. If they're teaching something else, I'd very much like to see it. 'twould make life much easier if I could believe that God wants me to take measures to guard and protect myself, but I just don't see the call for that, or how it's in keeping with the childlike care-free-ness and trust in God to take care of us that I know He has called us to. I'd really like to reach some kind of inner resolution on these things, but it's not going to be easy, I fear. Furthermore, I figure that it SHOULD be difficult for those who are really trying to follow God, and yet are hindered by their flesh (for lack of a better word). We must sacrifice one to satisfy the other. So what'll I do? What will others do?
|
|
|
Post by scintor on May 10, 2008 22:54:48 GMT -5
And paul said to rejoice in the Lord always, and that he counts it all joy when he is persecuted. The above post doesn't address what forgiveness IS, so my question remains: Clearly, few people will say that God wants me to sit down across from the one who stabbed me, and give them a knife. Whether or not the Bible encourages that kind of attitude toward the wrong doer, very few would be willing to practice it, so very few would teach it. But what DOES forgiveness entail? The poster says that you CAN forive and still be satisfied by justice. But SHOULD we be so? Or should we, like the Father, desire that NONE perish, not even those that wronged us? Should we not bless them, truly wishing praying the best upon them? And if we love and bless and forgive them, why would we not, as instructed in the Bible, feed, clothe, visit, and otherwise minister to their needs? I'm not determined that this IS what God has called us to as Christians, but it is what I'm seeing Paul and Jesus teaching. If they're teaching something else, I'd very much like to see it. 'twould make life much easier if I could believe that God wants me to take measures to guard and protect myself, but I just don't see the call for that, or how it's in keeping with the childlike care-free-ness and trust in God to take care of us that I know He has called us to. I'd really like to reach some kind of inner resolution on these things, but it's not going to be easy, I fear. Furthermore, I figure that it SHOULD be difficult for those who are really trying to follow God, and yet are hindered by their flesh (for lack of a better word). We must sacrifice one to satisfy the other. So what'll I do? What will others do? Try reading through Luke thouroughly, and you will find that Jesus clearly taught us to be practical in how we deal with the world. Several parables go directly against the "open yourself for victimhood to be holy" type of thinking. (The parables of the persistant widow and the shrewd manager come to mind.) We are not called to be stupid, we are called to be rightous. Scincerely, Scintor@aol.com
|
|
|
Post by Jeff Gerke on May 12, 2008 7:47:19 GMT -5
Several parables go directly against the "open yourself for victimhood to be holy" type of thinking....We are not called to be stupid, we are called to be righteous. This is a very important point, Scintor. I think the Church needs to hear it. Jeff
|
|
|
Post by rwley on May 12, 2008 16:33:42 GMT -5
For some things there are no easy answers and for others there are no answers at all exept: "My grace is sufficent for you" 2 Cor 12:9. Although God was talking to Paul about that bothersome thorn in the flesh, it still applies to all we do and all we are. We live in a fallen world and even those who work daily at following Christ as closely as possible, none of us is perfect. We must depend on His grace to cover what we cannot understand. It is sufficent.
Robi
|
|
|
Post by mongoose on May 12, 2008 23:26:29 GMT -5
Thanks for the suggestion of an expository examination of the book of Luke, to see what Jesus says by His words and His life about how He wants us to behave in various situations. I'll surely do that. I have read Luke before, several times, and I obviously came to different conclusions those times than y'all have, but I realize I sometimes miss things. Thus I'll try to read it with an open and prayerful mind, to see, not how it supports my views, but what it's teaching in its own right. If anyone's interested in my thoughts as I make my way through it, I'll be posting them on my blog at mongoosenest.orgWay to exhort me to righteousness and spiritual disciplines! *grins*
|
|