Calling All Star Wars Experts

[Teskas]

Could I please have some observations from those of you who are into the first film of the Star Wars series?

You know the light saber scene between Darth Vader and Obi Wan?

What is your take on what happened there? What was Obi Wan actually saying (behind the words) before his cloak hit the floor?

The scene has always left me a little confused/baffled. Did Obi Wan commit suicide? Or was he doing some New Age thing that doesn't click with a Christian mindset?

[yoda47]

He saw Luke and company in the hanger bay. Even if he could defeat Vader (and I think he had his doubts) he couldn't get to the Falcon through all of the storm troopers and get away, and he knew Luke wouldn't leave him.

So, he put up a good show to draw everyone away from the falcon, and let Vader beat him so the others could get away.

Whether that's suicide or not, depends on a certian point of view. (heh, heh) If Darth was going to kill him eventually, if the stormtroopers were going to get them, it was the only way out for any of them.

I say he gave his life for not just Luke and company, but for all the billions of other lives that could be saved with the info that R2 was carrying.

You could say say the whole force ghost thing (that ObiWan knew would happen) is a metaphor for: a. Christian resurrection b. Buddhist reincarnation c. New Agey stuff
Most likely, it's a combination of all of those, along with some imagination. To my knowledge, Lucas has never even hinted at being a Christian, but he has admitted to mixing ideas and concepts from all sorts of Theams, stories, ledgends, and religions; Christianity among them.

[Bainespal]

But why did he just disappear? He was so one with the Force that his body just.... melted into the universe or something?

[metalikhan]

I saw it as an equivalent of Enoch being translated away from the physical realm. If memory serves me (sometimes it actuallly does work ), Obi Wan tells Vader that if Vader strikes him down, he (Obi Wan) will become more powerful than Vader could ever imagine. So, when he apparently sacrifices himself so the others could get away, he is actually yielding to that translation from a bodily/physical realm to spiritual realm. And in a way, he does become more powerful -- he's protected and can no longer be touched by the evil occuring in the physical realm even though he can still counsel Skywalker for a while.

Remember the beginning words of the movie? "A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away..." This indicated to me that the story was prior to Christ's redemptive act -- what amounts to OT times rather than NT times. And since the story takes place "in a galaxy far, far away", could we realistically expect God to be named or perceived there in exactly the same way as contemporary American evangelical Christians perceive Him? As SFF readers, aren't we all too quick with the "preachy" label when a story becomes too blatantly evangelical? As SFF writers, haven't we used all manner of disguises for God, for Christ, for the Bible, in order to dodge the dreaded "preachy" label?

Regardless of what Lucas had in mind, the story still speaks to us where we are. It's a hallmark of a well-told story, even with its special effects aside. At the core, it was a story of good versus evil and Skywalker's coming of age.

[myrthman]

Yoda also disappeared when he died in ROTJ. I used to think that was what happened to all Jedi when they died, but Darth Vader, Qui-Gon Jinn, and all the Jedi killed during Episode 3 prove that theory was not correct.

[Kessie]

If I recall my Star Wars lore, there was some kind of rite a Jedi could perform to make themselves into a Force-ghost when they died. Not all Jedi did it, and that's why Qui-gon's not running around as a ghost, harassing Anakin.

And becoming more powerful than you could possibly imagine, well, he merged into the light side of the Force, right? So technically he becomes a walking Force battery. Just speculating, here, I haven't delved into the SW fandom in a long time.

[Teskas]

From what I can tell reading your various comments, the scene (especially Obi Wan's parting words) pretty much has a New Age/neo-gnostic quality about it, but it is possible to find elements compatible with Christian thought.

I had to ask because the scene began to intrude on some ideas I was playing with for some writing I was doing. I wanted to make sure I wasn't ignoring a message from the back of my mind.

Thank you all for your input.

[Kessie]

Teskas: So, wait, you're going to strike someone down and have them become more powerful than we can possibly imagine?

Remember, Gandalf did it, too, when the Balrog struck him down. He came back as the White with a time limit.

[Teskas]

;D You gave me a good laugh, Kessie. Nah, I had a vague idea of some cool metaphysical event for my character. I'm convinced I'd be chasing new-age nonsense. Nope, back to the solid, Christian drawing board, I'm afraid.

[Kessie]

If you're writing fantasy, go ahead and write fantasy. Just because the New Age has polluted it doesn't mean you can't have fun. Heck, I have a story where a character saves the world by becoming the conduit for a surge of magic that would otherwise destroy all life. He glows faintly for months afterward. New agey? Maybe. A fun story? HECK YES.

I've also had characters roam around dreamworlds with metaphysical beings, be trapped inside computers, and had one character slowly eaten alive by an AI. If you want to write it, write it. Don't limit yourself to the narrow boundaries of 20th century Christianity. It's not like you have to show it to anybody if you don't want to.

[myrthman]

"I shall become more powerful than you can possible imagine" = "My lightsaber will fall to the ground and turn off, but at least it stayed the same color during our fight."

[Teskas]

I take your point, Kessie. Why should the pagans and atheists have all the fun?! And, Myrthman, between you and Kessie, I will giggle all day.

[newburydave]

I pretty much agree with Kessie; however, it seems to me that this could also be interpreted as an expression of Jesus' words, "If I go away then the Spirit will come to you and you will do more works than I have done." (my paraphrase)

I've seen the Christian vs. Buddhist theology in Star Wars debated online several times. Me thinks that the Movie Guys may have been being syncretistic in order to make the movie appeal to a larger audience (Okay, new age too).

I think if the Passion, Resurrection and Pentecost is what Lucas had in mind though then his making Obi-Wan a God-Man in the image of Jesus is a bit of a stretch even in fantasy, unless you are actually trying to do an allegory of the Passion story. There is also the fact that Obi-Wan was not exactly a holy man in every respect.

That being said having Yoda do something similar is really out of the pale there, there was only one Jesus. There weren't a bunch of other avatars running around.

But hey, who expects Theological consistency from Hollywood anyway.

RE: your story; are you trying to make it an allegory of Jesus life and passion like Lewis did in the Narnia chronicles?

That's one avenue you could pursue if it fits the concept of your story.

Write on Bro

SGD
dave

[Ranger Varon]

It was possible, but easy to do. As far as I know, Qui-Gon Jin (The maverick, untraditional Jedi) learned it on a s=planet somewhere, and taught it to Yoda Qui-Gon Jinn taught it to Ob-Wan, who taught it to Luke Skywalker. When it happens, the person dies, but they stay in an in-between state, sort of. They do eventually have to move on.

I don't know the details. I haven't found a detailed explanation anywhere.