|
Coffee
Jan 4, 2013 5:35:53 GMT -5
Post by stormiel on Jan 4, 2013 5:35:53 GMT -5
Not sure if the coffee debate has been done here or not but here I go. I've heard coffee go by a bunch of different names and to me it doesn't work. It totally throws me out of the book if you know what I mean. In my favorite Sci Fi book it goes by "kass". The first time I read that, I paused and re-read the description thinking this is coffee, why did they pick a funny word for it? Does anyone else agree that this is annoying? lol
|
|
|
Coffee
Jan 4, 2013 10:07:26 GMT -5
Post by beckyminor on Jan 4, 2013 10:07:26 GMT -5
Ha! That same concept goes for renaming fantasy monsters, in my opinion. If it's a griffon, for Pete's sake, just call it that. Calling something recognizable by a funky name is not world building, in my opinion. And you don't need to populate your world with all new, never-before-seen creatures and races to have a compelling story world with depth either.
|
|
|
Coffee
Jan 4, 2013 13:09:13 GMT -5
Post by metalikhan on Jan 4, 2013 13:09:13 GMT -5
IMO, it depends on whether it really is simply coffee going by another name. If a stimulant drink of another world is a detail that figures into the story frequently, then some thought should be given as to what it actually is, how it's prepared, its flavor, etc. In McCaffrey's Pern books, there's klah but I never got the impression that it was just another word for coffee, nothing from the Coffea arabica or Coffea canephora plants. I mostly agree about renaming anything recognizable. It's lazy world-building at best; at worst, it stops the flow of the story for the reader in just the way you describe, stormiel. Taking shortcuts like that always shows. (Of course, if there's substantial language building that goes along with the world building, Ye Olde Glossary at the back of the book clears up any misconceptions. ) But I think the renaming issue is more applicable to details less vital to the story. There was some discussion way back when about using different names for God in order to camouflage Christian content (and avoid that dreadful "preachy" label). Personally, I don't think that works if the name directly and unmistakably reflects the American evangelical understanding of who God is.
|
|
|
Coffee
Jan 4, 2013 17:35:43 GMT -5
Post by myrthman on Jan 4, 2013 17:35:43 GMT -5
I opened this thread totally expecting a cup of java, or at least a coupon. Oh well.
On one hand, I think new names can be helpful in setting your story apart from the familiar. For example, I have "elves" in my world but I don't want my readers to think only of the tall, beautiful Tolkien elves or of the short, cookie- and shoe-making variety. My "elves" don't live in the forest (or the North Pole for that matter), don't necessarily excel at archery, and aren't the immortal artisans of Otherworld. They are gritty, nasty, racist sailors who do just happen to have pointed ears. I call them Yaam. And my cultured, fashion-obsessed centaurs are the Padaar.
On the other hand, I can see where calling a common rose (or a rabbit or coffee) by any other name jolts the reader out of the story. I guess I'm in the middle on this one.
Now I'm off to satisfy the sudden craving for steaming joe.
|
|
|
Coffee
Jan 4, 2013 20:03:09 GMT -5
Post by Kessie on Jan 4, 2013 20:03:09 GMT -5
Is THAT what klah was? I always thought it was some kind of booze. Like how in the olden days, everybody drank wine and beer because it was cleaner than the water. See? Communication disconnect!
The only person I've ever seen play with the meaning of words was in the Dark Materials series. In Lyra's world, all the lights are anabaric. Then she visits Earth, where everything runs on electricity, and she and Will break down the words--anabaric, amber, you rub amber with silk and get electricity. So it's the same thing, just two different directions from the same root word.
Same thing with chocolatl and chocolate, too, in the same books.
|
|
This Baron of Mora
Full Member
?Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.?
Posts: 113
|
Coffee
Jan 4, 2013 23:24:44 GMT -5
Post by This Baron of Mora on Jan 4, 2013 23:24:44 GMT -5
Not to offend: But coffee is gross no matter what you call it, or put in it (but yes that does seem pointless unless its a special type they made up).
|
|
|
Coffee
Jan 5, 2013 4:08:31 GMT -5
Post by almarquardt on Jan 5, 2013 4:08:31 GMT -5
Not to offend: But coffee is gross no matter what you call it, or put in it (but yes that does seem pointless unless its a special type they made up). That's only because you haven't tried the "right" kind of coffee In my world, I do have a caffinated beverage that's brewed, but it's not made from the coffee bean, has an entirely different flavor and color (and it's described when first introduced). Would that be considered lazy world-building?
|
|
|
Coffee
Jan 5, 2013 7:42:26 GMT -5
Post by stormiel on Jan 5, 2013 7:42:26 GMT -5
That doesn't sound like lazy world-building to me. I think the key thing is the color. As long as its not brown or honey colored or sound like tea or coffee, I think it would probably work.
|
|
|
Coffee
Jan 5, 2013 7:45:51 GMT -5
Post by stormiel on Jan 5, 2013 7:45:51 GMT -5
It's unimaginable to me that someone could write without coffee lol.
|
|
rjj7
Full Member
Today I'm a drake
Posts: 202
|
Coffee
Jan 7, 2013 11:51:39 GMT -5
Post by rjj7 on Jan 7, 2013 11:51:39 GMT -5
On one hand, I think new names can be helpful in setting your story apart from the familiar. For example, I have "elves" in my world but I don't want my readers to think only of the tall, beautiful Tolkien elves or of the short, cookie- and shoe-making variety. My "elves" don't live in the forest (or the North Pole for that matter), don't necessarily excel at archery, and aren't the immortal artisans of Otherworld. They are gritty, nasty, racist sailors who do just happen to have pointed ears. I call them Yaam. And my cultured, fashion-obsessed centaurs are the Padaar. On the other hand, I can see where calling a common rose (or a rabbit or coffee) by any other name jolts the reader out of the story. I guess I'm in the middle on this one. I wouldn't describe this as being in the middle. To my mind, the initial point was that if something has a common name, then use it. But in your elf example, I wouldn't say that your fantasy race sounds like elves. In order to do that, one would have to identify what makes an elf and elf, and from what you say, it simply sounds like they're a humanoid race with pointy ears. Some might consider that to be the qualifying characteristic of an elf, but that would mean that Vulcans were simply elves by a different name. Rather, I think that you have created something new (at least to a certain extent) and have come up with a new name so that people don't form preconceived notions that tie your race to something they're already familiar with. You could have called them elves, but then people would have expected things; like perhaps a backstory that explains how elves got driven from the forests and took to the seas as a refuge, and that that is why they're all surly and racist. [completely off topic, I think most people nowadays default to more of a Paolini type elf than a Tolkien type] I won't touch coffee with a ten foot pole.
|
|
Bethany J.
Full Member
Visit me at my blog (simmeringmind.com) or my Facebook page (Bethany A. Jennings)!
Posts: 176
|
Coffee
Jan 7, 2013 14:25:54 GMT -5
Post by Bethany J. on Jan 7, 2013 14:25:54 GMT -5
I'm another non-coffee-drinker! Eeew, gross stuff! Okay, "kass" sounds so familiar to me, and I know I've read that book, but what is it? Is it the Firebird books? Personally, I never thought "kass" was coffee! I figured it was just their culture's common drink, the way we drink coffee or tea in our society. I understood it to be something completely different. But maybe, as a non-coffee-lover, I misunderstood cues that were supposed to hint that it was coffee?
|
|
|
Coffee
Jan 8, 2013 13:14:29 GMT -5
Post by firestorm78583 on Jan 8, 2013 13:14:29 GMT -5
The Deep Space Nine episode Trials and Tribblations, there was Racktejino, Klingon coffee.
I'm not sure if they had coffee in Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series, but my wife said they called tobacco tabbac.
|
|
rjj7
Full Member
Today I'm a drake
Posts: 202
|
Coffee
Jan 8, 2013 13:33:16 GMT -5
Post by rjj7 on Jan 8, 2013 13:33:16 GMT -5
Yes, they did. I think that that sort of name change is a bit easier to swallow, since it's really just a shortened version of the name (like calling a pterodactyl a pterodac). But I don't think it added anything, and I think it would have been more natural to just call it what it is.
|
|
|
Coffee
Jan 8, 2013 13:36:17 GMT -5
Post by fluke on Jan 8, 2013 13:36:17 GMT -5
Racktejino was a running gag in DS9. Quark tried to make a decaf version once. "Quarktejino" almost made Major Kira throw up.
I never thought klah was coffee. It was a coffee substitute, and I recognized it as such, but it is made differently. From the Pern Wiki, quoting The Dragonlover's Guide to Pern
This spicy drink is generally served hot, possibly with milk and/or sweetening, sometimes with a splash of a warming liquor. It is brewed from the bark of a native tree. The flavor is something like cinnamony chocolate, with a touch of hazelnut and coffee. It can be drunk cold, but the preferred taste is warm. Klah contains a mild stimulant like caffeine and is used as the morning drink. Everyone but infants drinks klah. Children frequently mix theirs with sweetening and milk until they get used to the pungent infusion.
|
|