|
|
Post by Resha Caner on Jan 13, 2013 14:45:22 GMT -5
I have a list of language oddities - some are simple curiosities, some are more serious. I will start with one of the light-hearted ones.
English teachers are OK with contractions, but they seem to have an approved list. So, it is acceptable to contract I have to I've, but not to contract I jump to I'mp. In truth, what I think has happened is that people invent rules to explain what has already become convention.
But, the phrase, "I have not," is particularly interesting. As I mentioned, I've is an acceptable contraction of I have. But haven't is also an acceptable contraction of have not. So, the possibilities are:
1) I have not
2) I've not
3) I haven't
For some reason I find the fourth option the most curious, though.
4) I'ven't
Personally, I do not ever use that in my normal speech, but it makes me wonder: are there other double contractions? I think such curiosities of speech can give a character a unique flair.
|
|
|
|
Post by firestorm78583 on Jan 13, 2013 18:11:57 GMT -5
I think you could get away with using I'ven't with one particular character, and make that a quirk of his/hers. Remember that Mr. Data had the opposite quirk. He couldn't use contractions.
Since we're on language oddities, (Drive in a Parkway, Park in a Driveway), one of the most recent examples I've run into was when Walmart had a sign in the dairy isle that said "Butters".
"Sigh" (Facepalms). Butters is a verb, not a plural noun. You don't walk into the dairy section and say "Look at the butters". You say. "Look at the different kinds of butter".
Butter falls under the rule that is applied to words such as water, milk, and other words that use the same term for both singular and plural forms. Adding an s to the end of the word just makes it a verb, as in "She milks the goat".
Another incedent I've run into is where our local chain of convenience stores sell UNLEAD gasoline.
For starters, all gas is unleaded. Back in the day when we had leaded gas, it was added after the fact. The term unlead is a verb, not an adjective. The word would be used to describe the action of removing lead from gas.
I think enough years have gone by that it would be safe for us to go back to the old terms of Regular, Mid-Grade, and Hi-Test.
These were personal situations I've run into. For more on this, I suggest the works of Richard Lederer and William Safire.
There was a series of books published called The Intrepid Linguists Library. The series covered several topics such as political doublespeak, puns, hairy dog stories, and one of my favorites, Metapunctuation.
Metapunctuation dealt with the creation of a whole new punctuation system that allowed the reader to understand the emotions of the character, without all that "He said, ..." and "She said, ...".
On another note, I'm thinking of changing my tag line to;
"You're a writer?"
"Yes. How did you know?"
"You text in paragraphs."
Will
|
|
|
|
Post by myrthman on Jan 13, 2013 22:20:51 GMT -5
Those are fun things to think about. I want to learn more about metapunctuation. Word play is so fun!
I've also been intrigued by the (mostly unspoken) advent of what I have come to call "proper verbs." I've Googled it and didn't come up dry. I Facebooked my friends about it; they didn't understand. Maybe if I Anomaly the concept, I'll see some conversation... Just don't Jeff me (whatever that means).
|
|
|
|
Post by Resha Caner on Jan 13, 2013 22:22:32 GMT -5
Remember that Mr. Data had the opposite quirk. He couldn't use contractions. Yes, I've used that myself. A lack of contactions makes the speech seem a bit stilted, as if the speaker were unfamiliar with it. So, I once had a foreign character speak without contractions in order to convey that feeling. Butters is a verb, not a plural noun. After church today my family got into a discussion about adjectives vs. adverbs. It centered on using "fast" vs. "quick". It is interesting that "quick" becomes an adverb by making it "quickly", but the method for making its synonym (fast) into an adverb is debated. Some say it is never an adverb. Some say it is both without modification. Some say the adverbial usage is "very fast". English is full of such oddities. Though I don't know if it applies in this case, I suspect many of those oddities are due to the waves of invasion the island saw - Celts, Saxons, Danes, French Normans, etc. Metapunctuation dealt with the creation of a whole new punctuation system that allowed the reader to understand the emotions of the character, without all that "He said, ..." and "She said, ...". I get confused with normal punctuation ... and articles for that matter. I hate "an history". It sounds clumsy. I prefer "a history", so simply because I'm a rebel that's how I write it (and I have a history degree). Maybe it's my Celtic background. Gaelic, like French, is called a "lazy" language. It has a lot of silent letters ... even silent syllables. Anyway, with respect to punctuation, I'm never comfortable with punctuating quotes. It seems like context should dictate whether the punctuation goes inside or outside - not a hard and fast rule (even though that's what I've been told). "Where am I?" she asked. What does it mean to say "ad absurdum"? With respect to metapunctuation, I haven't heard the term before, but I need to look it up. When I'm really inspired to write, the words fly out at an awe-inspiring rate. But I once had someone in my writing group who objected to the way I tagged speech. I didn't even realize it at first, but once it was pointed out to me (again, being a rebel), I started to flaunt it just to irritate the guy. In my mind, speech is more than what's inside the quotes. It's the whole set up of the scene and the action. I love connecting action to words to better convey my intent. So, I have this tendency to do things like: "I won't leave you behind," he touched her arm. I know the "proper" form is: "I won't leave you behind." He touched her arm. But I like my version better. It's an intimate action, and I want the action to be intimate with the speech. |
|
|
|
Post by Resha Caner on Jan 13, 2013 22:30:52 GMT -5
I've also been intrigued by the (mostly unspoken) advent of what I have come to call "proper verbs." I've Googled it and didn't come up dry. I Facebooked my friends about it; they didn't understand. Maybe if I Anomaly the concept, I'll see some conversation... Just don't Jeff me (whatever that means). I despise such things. I know this is an Internet forum, and sometimes I do it, but I'm not overly fond of emoticons and texting shorthand, LOL.  My writing weakness is an overuse of the word "that". I actually do a word search for it when I revise so I can cut down on its usage. Also, on the Internet I tend to overuse scare quotes. I sometimes go back and edit them out as well. |
|
|
|
Post by Kristen on Jan 14, 2013 9:44:29 GMT -5
Anyway, with respect to punctuation, I'm never comfortable with punctuating quotes. It seems like context should dictate whether the punctuation goes inside or outside - not a hard and fast rule (even though that's what I've been told). "Where am I?" she asked. What does it mean to say "ad absurdum"? … In my mind, speech is more than what's inside the quotes. It's the whole set up of the scene and the action. I love connecting action to words to better convey my intent. So, I have this tendency to do things like: "I won't leave you behind," he touched her arm. I know the "proper" form is: "I won't leave you behind." He touched her arm. But I like my version better. It's an intimate action, and I want the action to be intimate with the speech. Resha, I find it amusing that you have a problem with proper verbs but not comma splices.  Being a copyeditor, I was trained to hate both. I've learned to loosen up, but not on comma splices. Which is what you have when you take two independent clauses and join them with nothing but a comma, as in your "touched her arm" sentence. If you really want to link the action and the dialog, especially if you want to show they are simultaneous, you want a participle: "'I won't leave you behind,' he said, touching her arm." But frankly, I think the version with the period is more concise, and doesn't diminish the intimacy of the moment at all. I'm going to edit what you said about speech. Communication is more than what's inside the quotes. It includes nonverbals like body language and expressions, but speech is just the noises that come out of the character's mouth, which is what we put in quotes. Since leaving the newsroom -- actually, since before leaving the newsroom; it's one of the reasons I left the newsroom -- I've become much more liberal about letting writers get away with idiosyncratic sentence structure, but the rules of punctuation, although complex and sometimes hard to understand, are not something most publishers will let you play around with. There are a lot of places where liberal editors will let you have what you think sounds better, but comma splices are rarely among them. |
|
|
|
Post by Kristen on Jan 14, 2013 9:59:12 GMT -5
Now, about contractions. I like using or not using contractions to distinguish between different people groups in my fantasy novel. Some have contractions, some don't. It gives the dialog a different feel. Here's a language oddity for you: In the newspaper business, there's a superstition against putting the adverb between the two parts of a compound verb, even though grammarians agree that's exactly where it should go. So where a normal person will write "he had never been there," an Associated Press-trained editor will change it to "he never had been there." So in my novel, the bad guys come from a culture that never puts the adverb between the two parts of a compound verb. My critique partners keep trying to move my adverbs back where they belong. Which is the opposite of what the editors at the paper used to do.  |
|
|
|
Post by firestorm78583 on Jan 14, 2013 9:59:16 GMT -5
I'm finding I overuse "and then" or "then". I am doing my level best to keep from using that term.
The metapunctuation thing was more comedy than practical. It had things like dazzle rockets that you put in front of long, boring passages to spice them up. This indicated to you that this passage needed to sound enthusiastic, even though the content was like molasses in the dead of winter.
The main thing I took away from the book was the authors idea that languages like Spanish got it right, in that they put the punctuation at the beginning of the sentence to let you know the proper emotion or inflection of the sentence. In English, we can read a sentence aloud, get to the end, and then see the exclamation point. That causes us to have to reread the sentence with the proper emotion.
Quatations give me fits, too. In fact, when I'm just jotting down ideas, I leave them out. I write from the principle of "Get it out of your head, and then go back and make it look pretty".
|
|
|
|
Post by Resha Caner on Jan 14, 2013 12:03:25 GMT -5
There are a lot of places where liberal editors will let you have what you think sounds better, but comma splices are rarely among them. I've actually become more conservative. I realize the need to concede to convention simply because part of "communication" (I'll agree to use your word) is what the reader expects. When you introduce something they don't expect, it must be done carefully. And the smallest things can throw them off, even though they can't always articulate it. I've seen all kinds of interesting oddities. For example, Grillet (in The Secret Room) experimented with telling a story backwards. I once experimented with killing off the protagonist in the first few lines of the story. Stuff like that. Anyway, I concluded that it's not so much the liberality of the editor as the reputation of the writer. If you're famous, you can get away with more because it's been "proven" (note the scare quotes) you're artistic. Think e.e. cummings. In other words, just as the winners write history, they also write the rules of grammar, punctuation, etc. Quatations give me fits, too. In fact, when I'm just jotting down ideas, I leave them out. I write from the principle of "Get it out of your head, and then go back and make it look pretty". I do that as well. |
|
Being a copyeditor, I was trained to hate both. I've learned to loosen up, but not on comma splices.