Joel P.
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Vertavit on duch Firthos est, cas asheidux on duch shei est.
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Post by Joel P. on Mar 8, 2013 13:25:48 GMT -5
Good to see those sentient nets Jeff set up caught you and tossed you back. Okay, that'd work. And no, I wasn't really planning on having the same heroes. I know one of 'em will be a wizard, though, so he or she would probably still be spry enough to pop up in the second book.
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Post by stormiel on Mar 9, 2013 4:04:40 GMT -5
Just a few questions,
Since this would take 70 years, how far along is our villain's mist sabotage mission?
What mental power would this villain have?
What is his goal? Is he trying to take over Vestraten? Does he want their resources for a larger goal?
If as Randy suggested the original villain dies early then I still have the same questions for the new villain.
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Joel P.
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Post by Joel P. on Mar 10, 2013 11:35:35 GMT -5
Oh, pretty far along, I think. Far enough along the effects are overwhelmingly noticeable.
Well, I was thinking along the lines of generalized mental abilities - telepathy, telekinesis, and the ability to imprint a personality/consciousness on lower creatures (which enables him to give the mist a consciousness). What were you thinking?
I think it's just kind of a 'blackmail the world into submission' plan. There could be more to it, though.
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Post by stormiel on Mar 11, 2013 1:57:38 GMT -5
Interesting. I like the idea about imprinting the personality.
I don't have a specific idea lined out but here is my current thought process on the villain so far:
First off is it a he or a she? If the villain is a male, I sort of start to caricature him in my head as the villain with the huge top hat an twirly mustache or think of him as Brain from Pinky and the Brain... Thats just me though, it doesn't really have to do with any of the ideas we've all posted so far. Female villains can be interesting. I don't have a preference.
(Lets just say our villain is male) What is his motivation for wanting to force the world in submission? What does he want them to submit to? Why is Vestraten such a key in this? Maybe they are the strongest opposition, or maybe they have a secret weapon capable of defeating him. Maybe they don't even know that they do. Maybe the villain sees the world as flawed and thinks that he is the one who is going to fix it. I'm not saying that he has good intentions here, I'm saying that in his point of view there is something in this world he doesn't like and wants to eliminate.
What could he so desperately hate or deem as a threat about Vestraten? Why does he feel the need to control Vestraten? This makes me think back to the secret weapon plan. Maybe Vestraten could have someone who has the power to control the mist. My thoughts on this character are that he could be either a man who see's the weakness in Vestraten's King/ruling authority (if we are still going that route with the leader makeing a deal with the devil, so to speak ??) and is going to let things play out until he has a better way to defeat the villain and will need help from our other main characters. Or maybe he's a jaded character who can control the mist but thinks that even that wont stop the trouble and that people deserve what they get. In that case it would be up to our other main characters to convince him to help and help him see the light.
Back to the villain. What is his motivation? Why does he want to dominate the world? Greed? Not a good enough reason. Power? Too typical. I keep thinking of Hitler on this and how he wanted to eliminate the Jews. He was a mad man. Maybe our villain needs to be a mad man too. Too weak of an enemy makes a flimsy story. He may have all the powers in the fictional universe but if he doesn't care about his cause then he doesn't come across as a legitimate threat. On the other hand if he is passionate about his reasoning then and willing to do absolutely anything to get where he wants to be then we have a villain who we have to worry about.
That's all I've got for now. Did you have more thoughts on his motivation?
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rjj7
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Today I'm a drake
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Post by rjj7 on Mar 12, 2013 17:05:50 GMT -5
I've got no strong preferences for villainous gender. So what options are there for villainous motivations for something of this scale? - Revenge/justice. Maybe he sees what he's doing as a punishment for something Vestraten/Vestraten's nobility/the world/humanity/some other race has done. - Greed/Power. A bit cliched, but possible I suppose as long as he wants the power for something specific (though in that case, one might just as well classify that as his motivation) - Grand Vision For Humanity. This puts him in the same class as most of the real world's mass murderers. Maybe he wants to eliminate some other race (that needs a warmer climate to survive? that is allergic to the mists?). Maybe he wants to create a new order where the world is ruled by wizards. Maybe he wants power for the wizards, but at present, the "natural" magic isn't strong enough to overcome the economic and political advantages that the nobles/royalty have. So maybe he's embarking on this plan to increase the power of the wizards so that they can finally assume leadership of the world (I actually rather like this idea; partly because it's a little more--*coughs*--political). - New Age Religion. I don't use the phrase "New Age" to mean precisely what it means in the real world (I'm actually not very knowledgeable on that subject anyway). All I'm getting at is that maybe the villain has subscribed to/pioneered some weird new belief system where living in the mists/communicating with the mists/inhaling the mists brings one to a higher plane of being/level of consciousness/commune with nature, and is trying to return the world to what he perceives as some better state (I rather like this idea too, maybe better than the other). A religion of a "new age". I'm out of ideas off the top of my head. How are other folk's thoughts coming? EDIT: And once again, I think this is the wrong thread for what I'm posting about. Gosh, I should think about these things a bit more. Also, to quote myself from the other thread: As a head's up, one of the reasons I'm quite a bit slower of late is that one of my real-world projects is accelerating a bit, and consuming more of my time. I'm gonna try to be more regular than I have been these last couple weeks.
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Post by stormiel on Mar 12, 2013 18:04:28 GMT -5
Rj,
I think either revenge or maybe the religion idea would work. Although I think if we were to go with the religion idea we would need a strong Christian element. In other words this new strange religion our villain is tracking with cannot simply be wrong. I think we would have to show that there is only one true God. I would be all for it. I think your idea and mine might be compatible enough for to work with.
If we do go with that idea, we just need a reason for Vestraten or someone in Vestraten to be a threat. That could mean that they are the last strong hold for true faith or if there is someone or something capable of revealing the truth (or any number of other things). There just has to be something capable of stopping the villain so that he needs to stop them.
What are other people's thoughts?
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Joel P.
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Vertavit on duch Firthos est, cas asheidux on duch shei est.
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Post by Joel P. on Mar 12, 2013 22:22:38 GMT -5
I'm not sure I agree with the religion idea; mainly because I think Vestraten shouldn't have a Christian-analogue religion as its state religion. I think it would be more interesting if the characters find out, as they go along, about the truth.
In terms of motivations, I think he/she could very easily be one who wants the world to be ruled by wizards - maybe we can have it so there's always been this tension and infighting within the wizardly community over whether they should hold governmental power or not. Usually, the people who want power are the last people who should have it, right? So there are the dark wizards.
Also, I'm not sure that Vestraten is such a key to his/her dominating the world; I think it would work better if it's more coincidence that our heroes find out about this (maybe villain's hideout/HQ is in Vestraten somewhere, so it's the first land to fall under really heavy danger?). Also, some of the other countries would probably pose greater threats, I'm sure.
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rjj7
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Today I'm a drake
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Post by rjj7 on Mar 13, 2013 12:03:58 GMT -5
stormiel: What precisely are you referring to when you say "your idea and mine"? (I know what you mean by "your idea"; you mean my musings on a religious motivation). I think that we could still have the religious motivation without having any sort of "state religion". The population as a whole could be agnostic, polytheistic, whatever we want. The monotheism could be a minority. Furthermore, even if we do go with something like this, we don't have to have religion as the focal point; i.e. just because we defeat a crazy guy who wants to destroy the world to bring it to religious enlightenment doesn't mean that we must be converted to Christianity (though that's always a possibility; it might actually be novel to have a minor character having his life fixed by conversion rather than the viewpoint character, as is usually done). But to examine Joel's idea, let's think about why someone would want the world ruled by wizards. Does he want the world ruled by wizards in a good way or a bad way? As in, does he honestly think that wizards could do the world a lot of good, or does he just view it as their right? In fact, how's this for an idea: There are actually two villains working in partnership. The one is a bit naive and thinks that they are working for the betterment of mankind; the other is more manipulative and just thinks that the wizards should rule. Perhaps they are even brothers or something. They could represent two sides of this coin. But instead of having the "good brother" converted to help the heroes, maybe he can remain true to his vision and loyal to his brother till the end, when they're defeated (even if he recognizes his brother's failings). But when their plans are destroyed and they're hurtling towards destruction, maybe the heroes can try to save the bad guys from death; the "evil" one will at this point be consumed with rage, and be using his last moments to try and kill the heroes. But the "good" one will recognize that his dreams are over, and he'll accept their aid. One will survive the other won't, and we can intrude a theme of grace; everyone is offered it, but you can't force someone to accept it.
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Joel P.
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Vertavit on duch Firthos est, cas asheidux on duch shei est.
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Post by Joel P. on Mar 19, 2013 19:52:22 GMT -5
Yes. Okay, I agree, Randy. Let's get writing before everyone forgets about this!
PM me with your emails, and I'll scribble something and send it out. Should we just do a short story first, to kind of 'set' the world?
Oh, BTW, here are the random bits of randomness Randy and I came up with (I think I know where mine come in, but I'm not saying anything!):
The clouds bring more than weather; something has disturbed the heavens, and each day brings a fresh new doom.
Immortality. Is that such an evil goal for oneself? No; it is merely the natural progression of man to a higher state. The sacrifice of dozens of lives to achieve it is the loss of some few hundred years of human life in exchange for thousands. (the idea behind this is that the villain will be an upstanding member of society, and his quest for immortality will be well known; if not the exact means)
Me: When night fell, we fell. Where the evil spread, we were consumed. Now we return to take back what once was ours.
"Who is king in the world of the dead? Who leads the armies of the lost to battle?" The silence I hear when I ask this question gives me the answer. Holy Father, what have we created?
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Joel P.
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Vertavit on duch Firthos est, cas asheidux on duch shei est.
Posts: 103
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Post by Joel P. on Mar 26, 2013 11:50:07 GMT -5
Am I the only one left alive? *sigh*
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Post by stormiel on Mar 30, 2013 1:55:55 GMT -5
Did you and Randy decide on what your plot is going to be?
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rjj7
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Today I'm a drake
Posts: 202
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Post by rjj7 on Apr 8, 2013 23:19:32 GMT -5
Am I the only one left alive? *sigh* I think you may be. Deuce of a bother, being dead. I finally found an obliging necromancer, but while I've been able to pick up a few contacts again, everything's still a bit of a disorganized mess. At least I think it was the Necromancer that's responsible for my being here. I suppose the zombie might have had something to do with it. [we can get into the ethics of the thing later]. Actually, my schedule got upended in more ways than one. I used to be checking the boards in the morning. Now I'm going to be doing it in the evening after everything else is done. I'm gonna try to give it at least five minutes every night though; firstly, so I keep up to date, even if I'm not contributing. Secondly, if I get on the boards, even if I don't read or post anything, it decreases the chance that I'll vanish for a month. Out of sight, out of mind, and I let the boards get out of sight for a week. You see what happens.
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