Vestraten: Story One, turns and explanations

[rjj7]

Speaking of belated...

Another 3.1k words that have more questions than answers, I think. Here are how my thoughts are running at the moment:

- I've started writing Atsui more like a mystery detective than a typical fantasy hero. In that he notices little things. Little clues that other people often miss. It just seemed natural at the time (probably because I did a similar thing on a more modest scale in Ch. 2).

- I've started thinking that our characters are going to exhibit a bit of schizophrenia. Which isn't necessarily bad, but will potentially have to be cleaned up in the rewrite. For now, it's just Idea Soup. This brings us to...

- Ada. Not entirely sure what I'm doing with her, let alone what you're trying to get done. I tried to show a bit more of a feminine side to her without descending into stereotypical goofiness about dresses. I'm seeing her as kind of liking it when Atsui ends up being firm. Rightly or wrongly, I think that most girls like it when someone is clearly in charge and giving orders; which is where the bossy female stereotype comes from. If no one else is doing it, they do it themselves.

- Shipping. I will confess that I have trouble throwing a guy and a girl together for extended periods of time without getting the urge. I want them to become friends, but then I run into the problem that I think that deep platonic friendships are very rare things between members of the opposite gender (outside of those one has grown up with). I'm willing to let this be one of those exceptions, but I thought I'd put it on the table to have a look at. (are Atsui and Ada even the same race? I forgot if we did anything there )

[Joel P.]

Sounds good, just so long as he doesn't turn into Phillip Marlowe.

Yes, I noticed you had Atsui laugh. (I've always thought he was like Lan from the Wheel of Time.)

Okay... not quite sure how that's going to go, but we'll see.

On this point only do I have anything firm to say: I do not like the idea of Ada and Atsui becoming romantically involved. In fact, I do not like the idea of them being friends. They are colleagues and perhaps comrades, but there are too many philosophical and moral differences between them (or so I feel) to allow romantic involvement.

BTW, I thought of calling the dwarves "Dyæmrv". And I have a few words in their language thought up, too.

[rjj7]

Hm, yeah, the laugh. I forgot about it, honestly. It was rather out of place at the time, and still is, despite my half-hearted attempt at explanation. Too many cooks, I guess.

Shipping: Okay, no ship. No friends either. So if no friends, then is Ada going to be a sort of anti-hero?

Feel free to call the Dwarves Dyaemrv (with the ae squished together). I'll do that in future if I ever refer to them again.

[Joel P.]

Sure, I think she definitely has that potential.
Also, I should say, you could possibly find a way to ship Ada with Manascht . I'm no good at that sort of thing, but feel free to take a shot at it.

Also, I forgot to respond to your question: Ada and Atsui are the same race. Which is driving me crazy because somehow the Vestrateni know she's not a native (sloppy writing on my part ) and I don't know how they could...

[rjj7]

I don't think of myself as an addicted shipper, so I can probably resist the urge. I will admit I'm rather partial to the: "She is one messed up individual, but then this guy ends up showing her a way out and saving her from herself" trope. What with Ada starting out an assassin, but presumable being one of the heroes, I leapt at the idea. But if we want her to be an anti-hero, that works too. Besides, one doesn't want to just use the first idea that comes to mind

Mostly, I just don't like people hanging in limbo. When it comes to writing, I'm about as far away from a "pantser" as you can get. I think this is a good exercise for me. I will simply have to sit tight till a bit more of a plot develops; then I can worry about pegging characters into holes. For now, please just try to overlook some of the more glaring inconsistencies I create.

About Atsui being like Lan: I think that Lan is too grave and emotionally inexpressive to be a good 'main' character. Like Tony Stark, he doesn't play well with others. But unlike Tony Stark, he doesn't really play well on his own either. Perhaps this is just a personal taste sort of thing, but I think Lan is a poor pattern for a protagonist, unless he is matched up with a faithful sidekick who can be expressive enough for the two of them. But where at this point in the story could we get a faithful friend/servant/butler/bodyguard to fill the role?

(I only read the first 6 Wheel of Time books, so if you're referring to a post-important-event Lan, I obviously am spewing hot air).

However, while the above observations are intended to be an invitation to discussion rather than a proclamation of fact, on one point I am adamant: If you try and create a parallel to Nyneave for Atsui to have romance with, I am going to kill her off at the first available opportunity. I despise that snobby, irrational, overbearing, blockheaded, patronising, sexist pig with the searing, white-hot flame of a thousand nuclear furnaces. The screaming agony of a million souls all casting their final defiance at the personification of all that is evil. A never ending cacophony of a billion dark thoughts fusing together in a molten globule of unadulterated hate!

Unfortunately, when I have strong negative feelings about someone or something, I don't like to let them flow too freely on a public board in case I offend someone or say something I regret. So if I have come across as a little ambiguous on my stance towards Nyneave, I'll gladly send you a PM where we can talk more freely.


(it's late at night here; I tend to get "funny" at this hour )

[Joel P.]

I LOL'd so hard over your description of Nynaeve. (She gets better [more like Faile, actually] as time goes on; Lan has a good effect on her.) But I would NEVER create a character like that, FYI.

And yes, I do agree with you about Lan being too introverted and inexpressive to be a main character. I meant more that Atsui's less personable and more distant than you would expect. He's not without pathos, due to his history and how he's conflicted over what he had to do during the war; but he's not as approachable as normal.

[stormiel]

Sounds like you two are doing pretty good, Im curious where the story is going to go. When you get further along with it, would you consider putting up a sample chapter?

[Joel P.]

Jul 20, 2013 4:51:38 GMT -5 stormiel said:

Sounds like you two are doing pretty good, Im curious where the story is going to go. When you get further along with it, would you consider putting up a sample chapter?

Absotively. Matter of fact, I happen to have my starting chapter right here... I'll post it in the proper area.

[rjj7]

So I had an idea I thought I'd bounce off of you, inspired by our discussion of Lan. What if we were to start another plotline somewhere on the coast with another character? In a rewrite, what we have so far could probably be condensed and/or some stuff with the second plotline could be moved earlier to give a bit more back and forth.

Some pros, as I see it:
- We could have a more 'chatty' group to offset Astui's general somber demeanor
- We could show another side of the mist problem; Astui and Ada are on the outside looking in, we could have someone on the inside who doesn't necessarily realize that there even is an outside (i.e. he doesn't realize that what he knows as 'fact' would actually be treated skeptically by everyone else)
- With my writing spread out over two plotlines, the damage will be less concentrated, leaving more salvagable material


Some disadvantages, as I see it:
- Multiple plotlines could be difficult to pace together
- We run the risk of developing two plotlines so separate that they won't join together easily till far into the story
- More characters means more work

Not sure if pro or con:
- It might end up developing where you're writing one plot and I'm writing the other.


Anyway, just bouncing this out. What are your thoughts? Should I think about this at all? This isn't necessarily something that has to be done NOW in any event.

[rjj7]

About sharing material, I had a couple of ideas:

1- Get the emails of everyone who was involved in planning and CC them into the emails.
2- See if Dave is willing to let us use the Sandbox. I know that he prefers the sandbox to be used for more advanced drafts that are able to take detailed criticism, but if we were to include warnings in our story description/files, then we could avoid wasting the time of anyone who wants to read more polished material. I don't know exactly how the sandbox is set up, but am willing to investigate and follow this up with Dave if you'd like.

[Joel P.]

Would you follow up with that? That'd be great. ;D I'm a bit... overwhelmed at the moment.

[Joel P.]

Alright. 5,440 words more, and we're deep into the thick of things.

I've tried to maintain Atsui's observant mentality, not sure how well I succeeded.

Our heroes have met the cult, rescued Torgaris, captured Manascht, reunited with Egisto, and been knocked out three times. Sounds like a successful chapter. LOL.

Randy, I totally missed your first post up there. So! That sounds like an interesting idea, but definitely something I'd prefer to save for the second draft work. (It would be a nice break from editing). Depending on how everything plays out, that charrie could even be in another nation.

Also, I thought it might be good to start considering titles. Any ideas?

[rjj7]

A mere 1.8K words added. Things of note:

1. Torgaris. For whatever reason, I stuck in an isolated incident of "talk first, think later". This can be either developed or scrapped.

2. Future direction: My thinking was that they're going to go back down into the ruins. But perhaps not. It's rather a risky proposition. So perhaps they'll go somewhere else first. But whatever else, at least we have another link back to the ocean.


I'll see about following up on the sandbox in the next day or two. Been a rough couple of weeks.

[rjj7]

I thought we had decided the mists were not going to thicken enough to be sail-able until after the first novel (as it was key to the secret moving of political currents)? *scratches head* I dunno.

#1 rule of working with me: Don't think. You might notice my mistakes.

Now that you mention it, I also remember deciding that the mist thickening was going to be a side effect of all this stuff. So as a solution, ignore what was written and we'll fix it on the rewrite. ;D