A 21st Century Throwback Sect

[Jeff Gerke]

I just read another article about those kids taken from the Mormon sect in Texas. This one talks about how the kids are experiencing culture shock as they adjust to their foster homes.

www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,352373,00.html

A couple of times in the article it mentions that these kids have been brought up in what is essentially the 19th century. They don't know TV, chicken nuggets, or pop culture. (Neither are they able to make decisions for themselves, so controlled they've been.)

It struck me that it would be interesting to open a book in a traditional home set in the first part of the 21st century--with TV and Internet and Blu-Ray and microwaves and blue jeans--and then have the space police raid the sect and remove the children to foster homes. We begin to realize that their 21st century culture is 200 years behind the times.

It would be interesting to follow one or more kids through this odyssey to see how they adjust to a far future, space-faring civilization. These characters, who would be essentially us, would provide a nice keyhole for readers to experience at least one version of the future.

Jeff

[torainfor]

I just saw an interview with Arthur C. Clark. He said that if you took someone from a hundred years ago and plopped them down in our culture, they'd be completely lost. But, he thought, if you took someone from now and put them a hundred years in the future, it wouldn't be that much of a shock. He seems to think that most of the technology of the future will just be upgrades of what we have now. Anything new will be along the same lines so it wouldn't be so out there that we couldn't easily adapt.

Still, that's technology. Culture would be a completely different kettle of Babelfish.

[Jeff Gerke]

That's really interesting. I wonder if he's right.

I also wonder if someone 100 years ago would've said the same thing about now, and I wonder if that person would've been right or not.

My grandfather passed away this year having almost reached 100 years. When he was born there were essentially no cars, airplanes, or phones, much less spaceflight, Internet, microwaves, widespread global travel, instant awareness of global events, vaccinations, antibiotics, stem cell research, fertility treatments, or rock music. ;-)

I think people at every moment in history feel pretty "modren." I doubt anyone sits around thinking they're just not advanced enough. They probably all think (rightfully so) that they're at the cutting edge of what can be. They may wonder "what will they think of next?" but they probably don't expect it to be radically different from what they're experiencing then.

Plus, new technology takes years to get fully figured out by the masses. People take new ideas and slowly begin to realize the implications. And we don't usually recognize it when we're in the midst of a technological revolution. Take the current transition from traditional publishers using offset printing technology to small, indie presses using print-on-demand technology. The powers that be are resisting the change and even denying that they're being made irrelevant. We can't usually see it when we're in it.

Interesting stuff.

Jeff

[rwley]

I think it's the look at the culture that would be the shock. Where does all this technology lead? Do we become a culture that is so surrounded by technology that we lose face to face contact and personal relationships? As it is now, a person almost doesn't ever have to leave their home and can everything they need at their fingertips. Just about anything can be delivered; you don't have to be anywhere to go everywhere. Does that expand with more technology?

What about the family structure? How does technology change that? Again, our moral culture is sinking pretty fast right now, how much further will we have fallen in the next 100 years or so? Will it truly be a case of the good and sane staying locked in their homes and only the crazies are out running the streets? After all, only a crazy person would actually "go out there" and face all the real dangers of advance pollution, runaway crime, etc when it's much safer to stay home and let the computer bring everything to your door. Can you imagine an entire culture of agoraphobics?

The technology may not be the part that takes getting used to.

There was folk song way back in the '60's (yes, I remember that far back) that was called "Little Boxes"; the words went something like this:

Little boxes on the hillside
Little boxes made of ticky tack
Little boxes on the hillside
and they all look just the same

Now, at that time it was talking about the "planned communities" that were popping up all over the suburbs and all the tract houses that were cookie cutter; but 100 years from now, an agoraphobic society could look just like as well. Everyone lives in their own little technology box and no one would worry about architectural aesthetics because no one would ever see the outside. Inside, your home would reflect your personality, but the only people who would see it were those who you allowed to see you on your video phone. No one ever leaves home; it's not safe. Everything is done online, even church. Either by direct link or through VR or a combination of both.

How lonely!

I don't know. Again, something to think about.

Robi

[Jeff Gerke]

This is great. I've not seen a futuristic story told with this premise, though I'm sure they're out there. Still, how fun.

Maybe besides crooks and crazies the only other group to go out there would be a certain church or ministry that is reaching out to the crooks and crazies. Of course these ministry folks would be thought of as, well, crooks and crazies by those who get their Christianity delivered to them in their homes.

Cool idea.

And then, just to tie it back into my original scenario, how would some 21st century throwbacks react if suddenly thrust into this culture? They might fit right in, being of an isolationist bent anyway. Or would they join the crazies on the outside?

Maybe they would want to be with the isolationists but because they don't already have some chip implant or something they're not allowed to. They'd be forced to live on the outside. That seems like it would be a more interesting story--a more logical way of heightening the shock these people would feel. Seems like a better way to examine our own throwbacks among us now.

Jeff

[kouter]

I think the next giant leap in technology that could possibly make a persons from today's world boggle is nanotechnology. Its something that could really make all kinds of things obsolete.

At its highest level, imagine if nanomachine could work on the atomic level. You could turn a air into gold if you wanted to. Spaceships would be grown in space. There'd be huge waste factories that recycle all garbage into basic elements. Who know's what the economy would be based on then. Maybe just pure energy. That kind of reminds me of this game called Startopia where your currency is energy and you buy bluprints for items but to make them you just spend energy.

Hmmm... after saying all that maybe even nanotech wont be too much of a shock. I think Clarke might be right. With Sci-fi so ingrained in our society, I don't think anything will be too shocking.

[Jeff Gerke]

Certainly it is our SF writers and futurists who lay the tracks for us to head forward. I think people would've been shocked if we'd suddenly just gone to the moon without the benefit of a hundred years of SF imagining that very thing.

Here's a better question: if SF writers hadn't have been imagining it, would we have done it?

So many scientists are SF fans--or were so when they were younger--and so many science developments are the results of SF-inspired people trying to bring into reality what had excited their imaginations in the past.

Maybe we should all be writing SF that points us in the direction we hope the future will go...

Jeff

[torainfor]

Back to the little pink boxes for you and me, (not the direction I hope the future will go!) I was led through a blog link to a photo project by some people who went into the Chernobyl area.

www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddofspeed/pluto1.html

If we're all in our little boxes with our decorated interiors or driving back and forth to our jobs supervising manufacturing done by robots (on the rare days we couldn't monitor them from home) what would the world outside look like? Instead of covering the surface of the earth with houses and manufacturing plants and offices, would we just sit and let nature take over? People would work, play, meet, order food, all online--as if playing the game SecondLife. Meeting IRL would become too risky. Face to face would require a webcam.

Could it be that Starbucks, "America's living room," is actually saving society?

[mongoose]

I don't know if I'm really optimistic, or y'all're really skeptical, but I doubt people will ever stop meeting face to face. I tried an on-line church service thing once. It didn't work. The fact is, as much as WE (a small minority, yet) enjoy typing things to each other, most people would rather chat. They get to see each other's facial expressions and body language, and sometimes even use touch to communicate a little.

In looking for jobs, more is done on-line than ever before, but it's still only something like 7% of jobs that are secured by filling out on-line applications. Most of them are secured by networking or face to face inquiry interviews. The skills involved therein will become even more important as more people depend more on the web. (It's my job. Career Development)

And even when jobs and business can be done from within the home, we'll still go outside recreationally. We'll still play golf, baseball, ride our bikes, ski, hang out at the club, whatever it is we do for fun outside our homes these days.

That's my thinking, anyway.

[Jeff Gerke]

Fun thoughts. I wrote a short story once about a society that was insular like this. People did still brave the badlands between homes, but they did so in armored cars and with armed escorts.

Like driving a stagecoach through Apache territory or through lands known to be inhabited by outlaws.

Jeff

[rwley]

In one way, I agree with Mongoose. I am a social animal for all the time I spend on my computer. I love to be with people and I love to have people in my home. But American urban and suburban neighborhoods are becoming more and more isolationist. A couple weeks back I got an email from a friend who lives in India. She and her family are in the states visiting. Her daughter, who is about 6, made a very interesting comment. She asked her mommy where all the people were? She wanted to know if anybody lived in the town they were staying in? In India, everyone is outside. There are always people on the streets and in their yards, what passes for a yard, and no one stays in the homes. Good reason for this; if you have a home it's probably very small and dark, and there are so many without homes to begin with. Here, we all stay inside our air conditioned/heated, insulated, fully equipped, safe, secure little environments.

Our kids may play with their friends, but it's inside on the video games or computers. We have coffee with our neighbors, inside our kitchens. We don't just sit on the porch and watch the neighbors go by; one because they don't go by on foot and two we're afraid of drive by shootings.

Now I know that not every neighborhood in every city is like this; but the discontent and the fear is growing. As a kid, only one yard on our entire block had a fence around it and the rest of the yards were open territory to every child on the block. We ran from yard to yard even if the home there didn't have kids. The yard with the fence housed a very large, very unfriendly German Shepherd.We played in everybody's yard, climbed everybody's trees and no one bothered us unless we broke something. But even then nobody called their lawyer, they called our moms; much worse by the way. If my friend's mom yelled at me for doing something wrong, my mom didn't get upset, I just got in more trouble. Same thing with their kids.

That rarely happens now. In small towns, yes, I think it's still that same sort of community mentality, but technology has paved the way for people to truly become isolationist in attitude and lifestyle.

This future agoraphobic society would be the result of decades of moral and spiritual decline in the midst of techonological advances. A person who was transported into this type of culture would be lonely and scared because there would be no one to reach out to him on a face to face level. They would not know how. His challenge would be to get them to come out to him. The story would be how to overcome not only his loneliness, but their fear.

Robi

[mongoose]

Apr 29, 2008 13:27:01 GMT -5 rwley said:

Our kids may play with their friends, but it's inside on the video games or computers. We have coffee with our neighbors, inside our kitchens. We don't just sit on the porch and watch the neighbors go by; one because they don't go by on foot and two we're afraid of drive by shootings.

Now I know that not every neighborhood in every city is like this; but the discontent and the fear is growing. As a kid, only one yard on our entire block had a fence around it and the rest of the yards were open territory to every child on the block. . .

. . .That rarely happens now. In small towns, yes, I think it's still that same sort of community mentality, but technology has paved the way for people to truly become isolationist in attitude and lifestyle.

This future agoraphobic society would be the result of decades of moral and spiritual decline in the midst of techonological advances.

Robi

Far be it to question another's experience. If you've witnessed isolationism, you've witnessed isolationism. But I have not done so. It's never been quite that way here in Anchorage, AK (360,000 people), nor was it that way near Big Bend Indiana (I think that was the town) where my Step Mom used to live, nor was it that way in Lake Forest, a bedroom community north of Chicago where I went to College.

Our kids ride their bikes, skateboards and inline skates up and down the streets. They go to camps in the summers, and some even in the winters, to play outside in the dirt, the woods, the fields, etc. They're on baseball, hockey, soccar and football teams with others in their age groups. Many go on longer cycling, hiking, skiing, and boating trips of one kind or other, as a matter of course. It's the weekend, we go on a day trip outside somewhere, as a family. It's vacation time, we pack up the SUV or station wagon, and go car camping at one of the area state or federal camp grounds. Some even go backpacking or take other overnight or weekend trips as a family, traveling under their own power. We have great places to go outside, and we take full advantage of them, as individuals, families, and communities.

There are some neighborhoods where there are occasional drive by shootings, but even the small ones still make the news, and cause a general public outcry and all kinds of anti-gang or anti-crime task forces. There ARE no real gangs, just groups of teenage wannabees. The rest of us don't really worry too much about them. Yeah, we lock our doors, and some of us have four foot high chain link fences, but we aren't unfriendly over those fences. We'll often wave and say hello to people we don't know, as we pass each other when walking to and fro on the streets of downtown, or wherever. I seriously doubt that Anchorage is alone in these kinds of things, but if you think it is, and you want this kind of community, you're welcome to move up here and join us! *grins*

I honestly don't see a connection between this and technology. You can see that I'm on here frequently, posting, and yet I also ride my bike or walk to and from work year around, whatever the weather may be. I'm also an active member of my church lay leadership, and of a Toastmasters club. So being into technology doesn't preclude being into the out of doors or being into the community in my case, and I don't think it does in the cases of other people as well.

[torainfor]

We took a trip to Alaska for our tenth anniversary. We were living in Hawaii, "The Aloha State," but the first thing we noticed about Alaska was how friendly everyone was.

We didn't have real gangs in Great Falls, either. My theory was it was too dang cold half the year to congregate and cause havoc.

[mongoose]

I apologize for the offensiveness in my last post. I just want to encourage people to look at how well things are going for all of us here in America, and much of the rest of the West (Western Europe and other such places). Yeah, the church is declining here in the West, but that's the church's fault. Any attacks from the world against the church are futile if she's doing what she's supposed to be, as Jesus said that the gates of hell will not prevail against her. We needn't worry about the world or what they're trying to do to us. The early church came under worse persecution than we are today, and they prayed for strength and courage to preach the gospel. Jesus said that we will come under persecution from the world, but not to be dismayed, as He has overcome the world. In Philippians it says to think on the good things of God, and He'll keep us in perfect peace.

So, however bad things get, until the last day when it's all destroyed, we will remain; a remnant, strong in our pursuit of God and of the things of God; in our Love for Him, ourselves, each other, and His Creation. Maybe that could be the focus of someone's novel. Things are bad for most of the people of the world, but the Christians have it going on much like we did during, say, the great awakening or the Charismatic movement, or some such time. For whatever it's worth coming from me, be encouraged. God is in control, His people are faithful, and we win!

I wouldn't do a novel on this, because that's other people's area of interest more than mine, but I suppose I'll do some sort of short story or role playing game showing an optimistic view of post-apocalyptic, anti-Christian developments in the world. The Christian who gets news of the abomination that makes desolate being set up in the temple, and flees to the hills as directed by Jesus. How does that play out, given the technology that's likely to be available to the government ten, twenty, or however many years from now? Maybe in the end he starts a revival in the wilderness, and it's John the Baptist the second. Or maybe he is imprisoned and starts a revival there, like Paul. Or is simply martyred, for the glory of God. But either way, he'll have a good life up in the hills for a while, escaping and evading enemy troops by the power of the Holy Spirit and the skills gained through outdoor recreation and/or survival training. *grins* That would rawk to read, so it might be fun to write.

[Spokane Flyboy]

Apr 29, 2008 21:39:22 GMT -5 mongoose said:

Apr 29, 2008 13:27:01 GMT -5 rwley said:

Our kids may play with their friends, but it's inside on the video games or computers. We have coffee with our neighbors, inside our kitchens. We don't just sit on the porch and watch the neighbors go by; one because they don't go by on foot and two we're afraid of drive by shootings.

Now I know that not every neighborhood in every city is like this; but the discontent and the fear is growing. As a kid, only one yard on our entire block had a fence around it and the rest of the yards were open territory to every child on the block. . .

. . .That rarely happens now. In small towns, yes, I think it's still that same sort of community mentality, but technology has paved the way for people to truly become isolationist in attitude and lifestyle.

This future agoraphobic society would be the result of decades of moral and spiritual decline in the midst of techonological advances.

Robi

Far be it to question another's experience. If you've witnessed isolationism, you've witnessed isolationism. But I have not done so. It's never been quite that way here in Anchorage, AK (360,000 people), nor was it that way near Big Bend Indiana (I think that was the town) where my Step Mom used to live, nor was it that way in Lake Forest, a bedroom community north of Chicago where I went to College.

Our kids ride their bikes, skateboards and inline skates up and down the streets. They go to camps in the summers, and some even in the winters, to play outside in the dirt, the woods, the fields, etc. They're on baseball, hockey, soccar and football teams with others in their age groups. Many go on longer cycling, hiking, skiing, and boating trips of one kind or other, as a matter of course. It's the weekend, we go on a day trip outside somewhere, as a family. It's vacation time, we pack up the SUV or station wagon, and go car camping at one of the area state or federal camp grounds. Some even go backpacking or take other overnight or weekend trips as a family, traveling under their own power. We have great places to go outside, and we take full advantage of them, as individuals, families, and communities.

There are some neighborhoods where there are occasional drive by shootings, but even the small ones still make the news, and cause a general public outcry and all kinds of anti-gang or anti-crime task forces. There ARE no real gangs, just groups of teenage wannabees. The rest of us don't really worry too much about them. Yeah, we lock our doors, and some of us have four foot high chain link fences, but we aren't unfriendly over those fences. We'll often wave and say hello to people we don't know, as we pass each other when walking to and fro on the streets of downtown, or wherever. I seriously doubt that Anchorage is alone in these kinds of things, but if you think it is, and you want this kind of community, you're welcome to move up here and join us! *grins*

I honestly don't see a connection between this and technology. You can see that I'm on here frequently, posting, and yet I also ride my bike or walk to and from work year around, whatever the weather may be. I'm also an active member of my church lay leadership, and of a Toastmasters club. So being into technology doesn't preclude being into the out of doors or being into the community in my case, and I don't think it does in the cases of other people as well.

We also forget that Alaskans have just recently learned that Kennedy was assassinated. Hehe. I kid. I'm a fellow Alaskan, though I'm stuck in Washington and have been since I was 14. It's still my home. But yes. Alaskan towns are still very much community oriented, though it wasn't that long ago that they were frontier settlements and had to be in order to survive. For most of America, those days passed before our grandfathers were born and have had a century to become complacent in their security. To a degree, you have to be tied to community in Alaska or else you'll go crazy in the winter. I know when Sibley was murdered in my hometown of Nikiski by some drug addicts wanting to pawn his aircraft tools for drug money, it wasn't just a blip in the paper, there were people that genuinely wanted to rise up in vigilantism.