ezlo
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Posts: 36
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Cain
May 20, 2008 10:24:01 GMT -5
Post by ezlo on May 20, 2008 10:24:01 GMT -5
So I was thinking of a new idea for a character/novel concept, and I was thinking of Cain in Chapter 4 of Genesis. After he kills his brother he is condemned to live and wander upon the earth. If anyone tries to kill Cain, God pronounces that he will be avenged sevenfold.
What if Cain never died and lived through history, to today and in the future?
Let me know what you think.
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Cain
May 20, 2008 10:56:23 GMT -5
Post by Divides the Waters on May 20, 2008 10:56:23 GMT -5
So I was thinking of a new idea for a character/novel concept, and I was thinking of Cain in Chapter 4 of Genesis. After he kills his brother he is condemned to live and wander upon the earth. If anyone tries to kill Cain, God pronounces that he will be avenged sevenfold. What if Cain never died and lived through history, to today and in the future? Let me know what you think. Great idea! But it's already been done. Ends of the Earth, by Naomi Starkey. It's an old enough book that you could probably get away with doing your own version. How did Cain survive the Flood? Underground passages, giving rise to multiple legends around the world?
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Cain
May 20, 2008 17:38:39 GMT -5
Post by Jeff Gerke on May 20, 2008 17:38:39 GMT -5
Don't let the fact that it's already been done stop you, Ezlo. Just be aware. I'm sure your take on it would be vastly different from the other take.
I think it's a great idea.
And I know Angela Hunt has a book called The Immortal that is similar to this, but not about Cain, I don't think.
Jeff
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Cain
May 20, 2008 20:01:57 GMT -5
Post by Divides the Waters on May 20, 2008 20:01:57 GMT -5
Right...didn't mean to sound discouraging. Just letting you know. I've had a story on the back burner for years that has definitely been "done before" in terms of basic plot. But I've also read most of the novels out there that deal with the subject, and am fairly confident that it's a unique take.
Definitely be interested in hearing more about your ideas.
Rob
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ezlo
New Member
Posts: 36
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Cain
May 20, 2008 21:30:46 GMT -5
Post by ezlo on May 20, 2008 21:30:46 GMT -5
Yeah, its not really discouraging. Most ideas have already been taken, used, reused so on and so forth. Even Ecclesiastes says there is "nothing new under the sun".
But, yeah I haven't really developed the idea much more than that, other than thinking about his other siblings that aren't really mentioned in Genesis. Perhaps they may play a key part.
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Cain
May 21, 2008 1:13:57 GMT -5
Post by Divides the Waters on May 21, 2008 1:13:57 GMT -5
Although I tend towards Bill Cooper's thoughts about Grendel and his mother in his excellent book, AFTER THE FLOOD, I think it's interesting that they were underground-dwelling creatures from the lineage of Cain.
Since Cain obviously had a family (marrying a sister, establishing the land of Nod, naming a city after his son Enoch), it would be interesting to see how an immortally cursed but protected man was viewed by his descendants.
I'd check some of the apocryphal/pseudopygraphal works to see what they have to say about Cain, as well as some of the old legends like BEOWULF, etc.
(The reason I asked about the underground connection is that I've been reading a fascinating book by Wm. Michael Mott called CAVERNS, CAULDRONS, AND CONCEALED CREATURES. It points out that many cultures, particularly Native American and some others, claim to have come from people who escaped a great flood by going underground. It would make sense for a novel, as Cain obviously wouldn't be on the Ark.)
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Cain
May 22, 2008 1:15:03 GMT -5
Post by myrthman on May 22, 2008 1:15:03 GMT -5
He could have been a stowaway, unlisted on any "ship's manifest." Cain's perspective on all of Biblical history--observing God's people, prophets, kings, and redemptive plan--would be a very very cool basis for a novel. You could pick out key events and do a thorough character study. Would he merely observe or would he interfere--to hinder or help? Is he a villain behind several or all catastrophes (like Mr. Glass in the film Unbreakable)? Is he seeking to be restored to relationship with God (the ultimate sinner--great Gospel story)? What would he think of Jesus? Paul, Peter, John? Would his inner journey take him to a place where he deals with his jealousy of Abel?
Lots of possibilities here. Keep the ideas flowing!
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Cain
May 22, 2008 2:16:15 GMT -5
Post by Divides the Waters on May 22, 2008 2:16:15 GMT -5
One apocryphal book claimed that King Og of Bashaan was a pre-Flood stowaway on the Ark.
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ezlo
New Member
Posts: 36
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Cain
May 23, 2008 11:39:53 GMT -5
Post by ezlo on May 23, 2008 11:39:53 GMT -5
I'm picturing Cain as being very shrewd and perhaps he makes an ark/boat of his own? Living for thousands of years can perhaps bring some wisdom I think. The many legends such as The Wandering Jew (see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_wandering_jew ), the Flying dutchman, so on and so forth perhaps should influence our ideas. But mostly, I was enamored by the huge mystery behind him. If the reader has absolutely no idea what he has done or lived through, but he has huge amount of knowledge and recalls great historical events, this can bring great mystery. I love the use of mystery in stories. The idea of using this as a gospel story is an interesting idea. I was also thinking of some sort of rivalry against some other immortal being? Maybe one of his unnamed siblings.
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Cain
May 23, 2008 13:52:48 GMT -5
Post by mongoose on May 23, 2008 13:52:48 GMT -5
As far as story structure, something that might work for this would be the style used by Anne Rice for her vampire chronicles. Usually the vampire sitting there in the present time, telling someone their story. Inevitably they go from even to event, dwelling on whatever was most important to them in each period in their life. It's a good way of showing what Rice believes of history, based on her undoubtedly extensive research thereupon.
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Cain
May 25, 2008 20:34:29 GMT -5
Post by myrthman on May 25, 2008 20:34:29 GMT -5
Does Rice use Cain in her stories? I know WW's Vampire games claim him as the first vampire or something like that. I only played a few times and never as story teller.
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Cain
May 25, 2008 23:50:00 GMT -5
Post by mongoose on May 25, 2008 23:50:00 GMT -5
Not as far as I know. In fact, I'd never heard the idea that Cain might be/have been immortal before y'all mentioned it here.
Ann Rice's universe has vampires originating, as far as the oldest vampires will confirm, from a blood hungry demon possessing the queen in Egypt, Akasha, when she tried to use her status as queen to expel said demon from a house it had been terrorizing. This, obviously, was long post-flood. She turned her king, and then one of their highest ranked advisers. He realized the evil of the king and queen, and, hoping to create an army that could oppose them turned the twin witches Mekare and Maharet. Those that the five of them turned were considered the "first brood," and became the oldest and most powerful vampires if they survived the conflicts that followed.
I HAD seen something about Judas Iscariot becoming the first vampire as punishment for the betrayal of Jesus, as he hung but could not die. That was in "Dracula 2000" I think.
And in "Underworld" it was some noble of some European country, named Cornelious, who became immortal by some means or other, and had two children, one bitten by bat, one by wolf. Thus the vampires and warewolves, or Lychens.
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Cain
May 27, 2008 18:42:39 GMT -5
Post by Spokane Flyboy on May 27, 2008 18:42:39 GMT -5
I've seen one with Lilith, the first wife of Adam (comes from some apocryphal work I forget the name of), and her offspring. I think that's VTM lore.
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ezlo
New Member
Posts: 36
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Cain
Jul 1, 2008 17:03:22 GMT -5
Post by ezlo on Jul 1, 2008 17:03:22 GMT -5
Hey guys, a little update on this story. I've decided to make it a short story about Cain in a near-future cyberpunk world. Cain cannot die, but also cyber-technic implants have made it so that regular humans can also not die with cyber brains transplanted to a new body. I hope to investigate the value of human life and our human bodies in this story.
Cain will be the main antagonist in the story. He will have kidnapped the young daughter of a lead programmer of a main cyber-technics company for ransom for something.. I haven't figured that part out yet, hahah.
Should be interesting though.
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Cain
Jul 1, 2008 22:11:58 GMT -5
Post by Jeff Gerke on Jul 1, 2008 22:11:58 GMT -5
Awesome!
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