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Post by kirstymca on Sept 5, 2008 18:00:37 GMT -5
To me, Genesis 9:3 : "Just as I gave you the green plants for food I now give you everything." would seem to be saying "I didn't give you meat before, but I do now." At creation all it says is that God gave seed-bearing plants to the humans, and green plants to the animals (Gen 1:29)
Of course, sinful people wouldn't necessarily stick to what God gave them, but, on the other hand, why would someone who had always eaten plants suddenly think, "I fancy eating a sheep." There'd be no precedent.
That doesn't necessarily mean animals didn't eat other animals before the flood. Before the fall seems more unlikely.
But if animals didn't eat each other before the fall, why are there all the camouflage patterns? Obviously animals will have changed a bit since then, but still, it seems odd that in Eden, logically there would be no need for all the amazing variety of decorative patterns! Unless they did have patterns before, but just to look good.
Or carnivorous teeth, or claws, or stick insects pretending to be plants. These surely can't all have suddenly come about after?
I'm rambling - I should go to bed!
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CastleLyons
Junior Member
Virtute et Fidelitate
Posts: 83
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Post by CastleLyons on Sept 5, 2008 18:30:57 GMT -5
This has been a great conversation, and at first I decided not to join in since everyone's pretty much covered all the sides. But on reading through it again, I decided to jump in.
On whether people ate meat in the Garden of Eden (pre-Fall), I would think it highly unlikely. One of the biggest reasons I think that is because after Jesus returns He will "restore" all things to their pre-Fall state. If people were eating meat in the Garden, that would mean that we'd eat meat once the world has been restored. I can't imagine us walking in and out of the New Jerusalem on those streets of gold, with the Lord as a constant companion, and killing animals to eat them.
I don't think the question of whether Adam and Eve ate meat is merely a matter of what we've been taught in church. I think the Bible's clear on this. At creation God said, "To all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground--everything that has the breath of life in it--I give every green plant for food." And it was so. (Genesis 1:30) That seems pretty conclusive to me. Any eating of meat would have been disobedience and would have brought about the Fall.
I also fully agree with torainfor about Romans 5:12, that death didn't come into the world until after Adam sinned. After all, Paul based his entire argument for salvation on that one fact. If that's not true, and death did exist before Adam sinned, then Paul's whole argument for salvation falls apart.
I do think, however, that some people were probably eating meat before the Flood, mostly because people were committing all kinds of sins pre-Flood. That was the reason for the Flood, after all! It was only after the Flood that God gave permission to do what many were already doing. Thank you, God, for steak!
These are just my thoughts on the subject, for what it's worth.
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CastleLyons
Junior Member
Virtute et Fidelitate
Posts: 83
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Post by CastleLyons on Sept 5, 2008 18:34:16 GMT -5
Hah! I see kirstymca has just posted some of the same thoughts as me. I must have been composing mine while she was posting hers! What's that about brilliant minds?
Hey, kirstymca, I see you're from Scotland. Now there's a place I would love to visit someday. That and Ireland.
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CastleLyons
Junior Member
Virtute et Fidelitate
Posts: 83
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Post by CastleLyons on Sept 15, 2008 7:49:12 GMT -5
One more thing I forgot to mention earlier...in the new Kingdom, when all things are restored, "the lion will eat straw like an ox." This is said in two places in Isaiah (11:7 and 65:25). It seems to me, by these verses, that it doesn't matter that some animals seem designed to be carnivores. In fact, in today's world we have some animals with sharp teeth and claws that eat only plants, such as the fruit bat and the panda.
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