|
Post by rwley on Jul 9, 2008 15:52:27 GMT -5
Where do you draw the line at "invented" words? When is it too much to ask your readers to learn a whole new vocabulary just to enter your world?
The reason I'm asking; I have priests/clerics/monks etc but I'd really like to call them something else. My world is not Earth. Their history is not ours. My monastery is called an ecclery. Am I trying too hard?
Robi
|
|
|
Post by Jeff Gerke on Jul 9, 2008 16:44:10 GMT -5
I think you should just write it the way it comes to you, the way it seems to work best. Don't edit yourself now. Just let it come out onto the page/screen.
If some gatekeeper says you need to change it to get it through his gate--and you really want to get through that gate--consider changing it then.
I personally like the idea of changing familiar church words to something else. Indeed, I am doing so in my own WIP.
Jeff
P.S. WIP stands for "work in progress."
|
|
|
Post by Divides the Waters on Jul 9, 2008 18:33:20 GMT -5
I take a cue from Orson Scott Card. He says not to make up a word for "bread" when "bread" is what you mean. He softly berates one author for using the word "darja" for "tea." (Darja = Darjeeling ... not so very far removed from Earth after all.) I think this makes sense.
I do think it is completely valid to make up new ranks and titles, etc., provided those ranks and titles are actually different from those you would find on Earth. Otherwise, why bother? If the word you use is merely an equivalent to something that already exists, you might as well use the word people are familiar with.
|
|
|
Post by J Jack on Jul 10, 2008 0:05:08 GMT -5
I'll point out that Eragon was rife with this, and I think I would have drawn the line much farther back in the plot. Trying to learn French and English was hard enough, but learning a made up language to follow the story better was something that drove me away. Yes, groups and titles and the like are ok to create, I really like the ecclery, that sounds very good for a group of priests. I personally draw the line at making a new language completely, and not only that but having the reader learn it so they understand some of the actions that take place.
|
|
|
Post by rwley on Jul 10, 2008 13:06:13 GMT -5
How does the word "sacrium" come across? Right now it's the chapel, but it's open to change.
The clergy types are generally "mynach" and specifically Abad if he is the relative equal to a bishop; Pader (we would call him Father) if he is similar to a parish priest or the leader of the sacrium and Bader ( we would say Brother) if he is still a young mynach or a cleric. A "sumynach" is still in training and has not taken his final covenants, or an acolyte. Take any of these words and add the suffix -ai and the person is female.
Is it too much? Is it too hard to work out, because of course in the context of the story it's clear these are religious persons and titles. I don't want them quasi-Catholic or any other religious equivalent. They are there own Empyrean faith with their own distinct theology and their own Sacred Texts. While Adon is basically our own God, the people are not "us" in any measurable way. This is a different place, not a parallel or alternate Earth.
Does any of this make sense?
Thanks for all the help and feedback.
Robi
|
|
|
Post by Jeff Gerke on Jul 10, 2008 13:28:17 GMT -5
I personally think it's fine, especially if you're not giving new names to everything else under the sun. If it's just new--and slightly familiar--names for one or two categories of things in your book, I'd say you're okay.
Jeff
|
|
|
Post by Teskas on Jul 10, 2008 13:33:00 GMT -5
Hi Robi,
My sense of the words you've suggested is that they are too close to Western linguistic roots, and too similar to Latin, to convey a feeling of difference that you seem to be trying to achieve.
Have you tried using oriental languages as a guide? They have names for clergy and religious buildings and ceremonies which parallel Western or medieval institutions.
There are online dictionaries for these languages if you decide to go that route.
|
|
|
Post by rwley on Jul 10, 2008 14:20:44 GMT -5
Actually they're based on Welsh words. Mynach is actually Welsh for Monk. But I'll look at the others, too. Ecclery and Sacrium are both words I got when I was playing with a random word generator. Oh, well, I'll see what pans out. This story is still so young I have lots of time to decide what vocabulary to use.
Again, thanks for the help.
Robi
|
|
|
Post by torainfor on Jul 10, 2008 16:20:48 GMT -5
If it's Welsh, I understand, but Mynach sounds awfully similar to "mynoch," the bird-things in the asteroid who ate electrical cables in "The Empire Strikes Back." Sacrium sounds too much like "sacrum" to me. Although, it would infer your religion has real backbone.
Please don't ban me!
|
|
|
Post by rwley on Jul 11, 2008 8:19:06 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by myrthman on Jul 12, 2008 14:31:12 GMT -5
I was thinking Star Wars too. Lucas had the "Jedi" and the "Sith," which, as far as I know, are made up words (recently thought he may have pulled something from the Bible: the Valley of En Gedi). Then he just added the words "Lord," "Master," or "Knight" as a rank. The new trilogy introduced us to "Padawan" and "Youngling."
I have an elite group of knights in my story called "Drakar." They're specially selected and trained for dealing with dragons. But the dragons are "dragons" not something completely unfamiliar.
I agree with Jeff. You should write what you want to write, be consistent throughout, and then consider changing it after talking to a publisher and some test readers. The great thing about writing with computers (if you do...?) for such decisions is the Ctrl+H keystroke in MS Word (Edit...Replace).
|
|
|
Post by torainfor on Jul 12, 2008 15:41:33 GMT -5
And don't forget Endor. I wonder how many names he just took from the Bible.
Although, I don't recall a "Tatooine" or "Hoth" mentioned. "And Peter went unto Mos Eisley and there healed a lame Huttite."
|
|
|
Post by Divides the Waters on Jul 12, 2008 16:18:16 GMT -5
Groan... Now I wish I'd come up with that one.
On the same topic: If, say, I wanted to write about large reptilian creatures that did not breathe fire and had no magical properties, but were not dinosaurs, should I call them dragons, or something else? I thought about "worms" or "wyrms," but that seemed a little too misleading, particularly since the culture's linguistics are more similar to French than Old English.
|
|
|
Post by myrthman on Jul 12, 2008 16:21:10 GMT -5
"Drake" comes to mind. "LizZards" Hmm. I wonder if "beasts" would be too generic? What about calling an entire race of such beasties the name of a more famous, literary or mythical character? The "smaugs" of Burntwood Forest. The "pythons" of the Apollonian Hills.
|
|
|
Post by Divides the Waters on Jul 12, 2008 16:48:32 GMT -5
Kind of like Beowulf, with Grendelsmere, etc.? Interesting idea. I had the in-universe name of "warein" (I can't remember where I came up with that, but it was based on some linguistic trick or another), but most readers are automatically going to think "dragon" as soon as they see one.
(Ironically, this is one of the areas of the story I worry about most; for one thing, it comes the closest to being cliche, but for another, the aspect of it which is not cliche may also be a little on the controversial side. But that has nothing to do with the naming problem, so I guess it's irrelevant to bring up here.)
|
|