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Post by The Blue Collared Philosopher on Sept 5, 2008 7:34:46 GMT -5
ok, i am taking an apologetics class and have been asked to answer the question: Why would a loving God create hell?
So, i just thought i would toss that out there and see if anybody had any thoughts on it. And...by the way...i don't have an answer for this question yet.
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lexkx
Full Member
How nice to know that if you go down the hole, Dad will fish you out.
Posts: 125
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Post by lexkx on Sept 5, 2008 8:12:36 GMT -5
To phrase the question that way suggests that God created hell before there was a need for it. Before sin, before Lucifer fell, what would be the point of having a hell? Answer, none. After which point, however, there then needed to be a place where God was not. And hell is what happens when you take God out of the equation. It's a question that should be turned back around on its owner, though, because it suggests that "loving God" is sarcastic and that hell was created for the punishment of some rather than the protection of those who call on God's name.
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CastleLyons
Junior Member
Virtute et Fidelitate
Posts: 83
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Post by CastleLyons on Sept 5, 2008 10:34:36 GMT -5
As I understand it, hell wasn't created for people. Matthew 25:41 says, "Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." I heard one preacher say that God didn't create hell in order to send people there...people fight and kick and claw their way there.
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Post by rwley on Sept 5, 2008 11:03:05 GMT -5
I don't think God "created" hell. Satan found his own hell when he chose to rebel against God. I know the lake of fire is mentioned in Revelation and several other places, and perhaps there is an actual place that God provided for those who choose to stay separated from Him. My own personal opinion is that hell is that place where God is not. Each person will be in that hell all by himself. There will be no hope, no light, no company. How much worse could punishment be than to be in eternal solitary knowing there was another choice and now you can never make that choice. Yes, they'll be conscious of what they've lost; hence the hell and the punishment. What good would it do to be oblivious? That's no punishment. And you don't even get to gripe about it with your cell mates. No misery loves company; no one, nothing, nada, but the eternal knowledge that you have no hope whatsoever of getting out, or getting better, or that anything will ever change. Ever.
Maybe the lake of fire is for Satan and the demons, but I think true hell is much worse.
But wherever or whatever it is, God did not intend that any individual, human or angelic, should go there. Nowhere did He ever intend for anyone to be separated from Himself. That's not His nature. But His divine, holy nature demands that there be a place for those who disobey. That's hell.
RWL
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Post by mongoose on Sept 5, 2008 18:29:09 GMT -5
I just want to answer the original question to the best of my ability, based on my personal beliefs, if I may. A loving God created hell to imprison the enemy of our souls, so he couldn't destroy us. He's been released to roam the world, deceive, etc. And there's any of a number of reasons that God would have released him.
Maybe he's testing us, or training us, or giving us something to contrast with his grace and goodness . . . It's really hard to tell, and at some point I think the question becomes merely academic rather than useful for a greater knowledge of Christ. The point is that there is a hell which is a place of punishment for sin, and which was intended for the enemy, and to which the servants of the enemy will be sent by God upon their death and/or at the final judgment. In the end I can speculate till I turn blue, about God's motivations, but the Truth of what He did remains the Truth of what He did. At least, that's my understanding.
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Post by Kristen on Sept 5, 2008 20:17:41 GMT -5
If hell = separation from God, then hell isn't part of God's intended creation, as such, but it's something he must to allow to happen because he allows free will. So I suppose you could say Satan and demons and sinners create their own hell(s) -- if that's not too existential.
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Post by The Blue Collared Philosopher on Sept 6, 2008 7:45:30 GMT -5
Hm...some good thoughts. Kristen, i'm not sure that hell=separation from God, it might, but God is everywhere, so in some sense it is impossible for God's presence NOT to be in hell. If God's presence wasn't in hell, then he would not be omnipresent anymore. Plus there is the problem of psalm 139:8.
And rwley, i believe that hell is an actual place. And i believe that all sinners will be thrown in the lake of fire with satan. In Revelation 20:14 it says that "Then death and Hades(Sheol) were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire." I believe that Sheol or Hades is like the "first" hell where all the sinners will be tormented and punished while they wait to be thrown in to the lake of fire. In fact, in Luke 6:19-31 it tells an interesting story of Hades.
Hm...some good thoughts on the question...the only thought i bring is...is this even a question we need to be asking?
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Post by Spokane Flyboy on Sept 9, 2008 12:53:31 GMT -5
It's a standard question of apologetics because it is a make-or-break question in a lot of discussions with non-Christians. Having a feasible and logical answer to this, not dismiss, does go a long way. It is this very question that turned my brother into a stanch, almost evangelistic, atheist who believes that if God truly does exist then Hitler and Saddam Hussein are more deserving of worship than Him. Having done street evangelism for a few years, this is the one point of contention most brought up. I personally believe, as others have said, that Hell is reserved for those that have already removed themselves from God.
I believe I stated in another thread that I tend to think that you will likely see those destined to Hell, standing before God on judgment who wallow in self pity (weeping) and others with anger, hatred, and bitterness toward Him (gnashing of teeth). They may defy God and say, "After all the pain you allowed me to suffer, who are you to judge me for what I've done?", curse Him, or spit at Him.
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Post by The Blue Collared Philosopher on Sept 9, 2008 16:33:30 GMT -5
Yes it is a standard question. But is it actually answerable? I personally don't believe that i can come to a conclusion that will satisfy the questioner. This question and our emotions are in conflict. Our minds say that God can create hell and send people there. But our emotions say that something is wrong with this, and that it isn't just.
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Post by morganlbusse on Oct 20, 2008 0:42:36 GMT -5
As some have pointed out, hell was not created for people but for the angels who rebelled against God. When I have been asked how could a loving God send people to hell (a little change from your original question), I turn the question around and say that that loving God died a horrible death for every human being so we could be forgiven and free from sin. It is humans who choose not to accept what He did in their place.
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Post by seraphim on Jan 12, 2009 18:37:31 GMT -5
Perhaps it is the last mercy (such as it is) that He can show for those who want nothing to do with Him.
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Post by Divides the Waters on Jan 13, 2009 0:13:57 GMT -5
Why would a loving city commissioner have a city dump? Why would a loving mother get rid of dirty diapers? Why would a loving society create prisons?
Okay, maybe those aren't the most apt comparisons. But seriously...where would the opponents of the notion of hell (whatever and wherever it is) have God put those who did not wish to be with Him?
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Post by scintor on Jan 13, 2009 1:54:17 GMT -5
If you believe in evil, then you should believe in consequences. What do you do with unrepentant evil? There are people out there who have chosen evil, and it was not a mistake or misunderstanding. If you start reading about serial killers, you will be confronted with this evil. If you also believe in free will, then God would honor the choice of such persons with the appropriate punishment, which is destruction.
Scincerely,
Scintor@aol.com
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Post by seraphim on Jan 13, 2009 10:09:01 GMT -5
That's the open question, whether or not Hell is a place of punishment. Punishment/chastizement without the possibility of correction is essentially vendeta, vengence. This does not mean however Hell is without torment, it only questions from whence that torment arises.
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Post by dizzyjam on Jan 13, 2009 10:35:33 GMT -5
The Bible does speak about the vengeance of God, so that would fit.
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