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Post by waldenwriter on Nov 6, 2009 16:26:32 GMT -5
I like the idea of doing what works for your story. Philip Pullman, author of the His Dark Materials trilogy, writes in the acknowledgments for The Amber Spyglass: "I have stolen ideas from every book I have ever read. My principle in researching for a novel is 'Read like a butterfly, write like a bee,' and if this story contains any honey, it is entirely because of the quality of the nectar I found in the work of better writers." Pullman's theology aside (he's an adamant atheist and clearly stated that his trilogy was meant to be "anti-Narnia"), I think his point is valid.
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Post by misterchris on Nov 11, 2009 16:46:53 GMT -5
It's been a while since I read LOTR but I don't really remember the elves in there being atheistic. Maybe I missed that. In Eragon's second book (Whose title escapes me and I'm lazy so I won't look it up (Oh, wait, Eldest?)) there's a chapter where the elves are very obviously atheistic.
I was reading it as a read-aloud to my kids and skipped that whole chapter. Call me a 'censor'.
I've borrowed many ideas from Jordan and Asprin for my magic in my Fantasy series, while the dragons are more along the lines of Eragon (basically good, truthful and humorous, innately magical based on their physical construct (magic is physically IN them, bones, blood, scales, talons, teeth all have magical properties ala Pete's Dragon)
Fairies are basically evil or neutral in my series. Got this more from the original Hans Christian Anderson view.
Wizards learn to harness magical power and cast spells ala Jordan, pulling force from lines in air and ground (ala Asprin) and cannot contain too much magic or they will die (ala Jordan).
Magical force and spells can be stored up in staffs, wands, amulets, and jewels, ala Jordan I think. (T'elarandrial?)
Borrowing ideas is not a problem. Borrowing lines of text, passages or the complete story line is an issue.
Yes, you don't want to be known as a 'spin-off' from some other story. But if you borrow from enough sources, and give a great plot and character development, if your story is compelling and entertaining, I think it will sell well. People want a good read.
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Post by beckyminor on Nov 11, 2009 17:11:24 GMT -5
I think I must have missed the comment where Tolkien's elves were called atheistic. But I would have to say, on the whole, religion is widely ignored in LotR. Of course, if you go back and read the Silmarillion, then you get the breadth of what Tolkien wrote with regard to the "religion" of middle earth, and that talks about a high"creator God," Illuvatar, over all, which the races of Middle Earth regard, whether to worship or malign. Some might argue that Tolkien created more of a "pantheon" through the use fo the Valar, but I'm too distracted to get into that debate right now.  |
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Post by misterchris on Nov 12, 2009 16:47:02 GMT -5
Nobody commented on it, other than that Paolini borrowed his elves from Tolkien, and I was pointing out what I thought was a disappointing difference.
My dad loaned me the Silmarillion but I never plowed my way through it. He shouldn't have told me it wasn't another 'epic story' but a collection of short stories. I just wasn't interested in digging my way through it.
My daughter read a Tolkien recently about a dog named Random. Ever read that?
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Post by azariah on Nov 12, 2009 17:09:36 GMT -5
I don't like being a copycat personaly. I can also point out how it has killed some works for me. Take Eragon for example. The Lonely Mountain bit had me laughing so hard I had to stop listening to the book for a bit. Then it kept getting more cleche as I went along. In the end, I couldn't finish the book and sent it back to the library. Now that I'm thinking about it, I want to watch Connan... hmm.
I haven't read Harry Potter but I've seen every movie. If the movies are anything like the books, the first four could have been grouped into one movie/book. It was like a re-hash of the year before, again and again. Don't repeat old info in your writing, and please don't repeat the same story line four movies/books in a row. Did the movies do the books a disservise?
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Post by beckyminor on Nov 12, 2009 17:33:45 GMT -5
Nobody commented on it, other than that Paolini borrowed his elves from Tolkien, and I was pointing out what I thought was a disappointing difference. Ah, okay...I'm caught up now. That's what I get for trying to be coherent too late at night. Yeah, I would agree that the Silmarillion is much more an anectdotal set of stories with a through line, more than a story with a typical arc. And it did take some plowing for me...I read the first 100 pages 3 times before I got the momentum to keep going and finish the book. I've heard of it, but never got the chance to read it through. I'm guessing it probably has the lighter feel of Farmer Ham of Giles. |
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Post by waldenwriter on Nov 14, 2009 1:21:15 GMT -5
It's been a while since I read LOTR but I don't really remember the elves in there being atheistic. Maybe I missed that. In Eragon's second book (Whose title escapes me and I'm lazy so I won't look it up (Oh, wait, Eldest?)) there's a chapter where the elves are very obviously atheistic. The book is called Eldest. There is some discussion between Arya and Eragon about religion at some point, I think. As far as I can see, the dwarves and maybe the race of men that most of the Varden come from (which I forget the name of) are the only races in Alagaësia that have any sort of religious structure. The religion of Eragon's kind is not defined, nor are we told what sort of religion dragons have. The elves are clearly atheistic. Wizards learn to harness magical power and cast spells ala Jordan, pulling force from lines in air and ground (ala Asprin) and cannot contain too much magic or they will die (ala Jordan). Magical force and spells can be stored up in staffs, wands, amulets, and jewels, ala Jordan I think. (T'elarandrial?) Both these ideas are also used in the Inheritance Cycle (the official series name for the "Eragon books"). While magic power comes primarily from within in Paolini's world, Eragon is taught during his magic training how to gather magic energy from things in his environment in times of need -- from animals, plants, etc -- though he strongly dislikes doing so because the things suffer as a result. However, building up too much magic energy within, or releasing too much of it (as in the case of Elva, the child he meant to bless but accidentially cursed, where he says he cannot spend too much power trying to undo the curse, because it would drain him), can be dangerous to the caster. Power can, however, be restored if one rests. In Paolini's world, you can also store magic energy in certain items, to be used in times of need. Eragon does this first with the jewels on a belt and later with Brom's ring. Tolkien also sort of did this with his wizards, since both Gandalf and Saruman have staffs that they use. |
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Post by courageforever on Nov 14, 2009 7:05:46 GMT -5
I never read the book Eragon, but I know that after I watched the movie I turned to my wife and said "OK...it was Star Wars...with dragons." Like really, the plot was so close, I almost thought it was a character substitution game.
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Post by brianjones on Dec 2, 2009 19:26:14 GMT -5
This is why I decided to do superheroes instead of fantasy I didn't want to write another Tolkien rip off and I really didn't know how to do that. From what I have seen in interviews with the "Eragon" author he actually took heavily from Norse myth which was popularized by, yep you guessed it Tolkien.
So if you use Germanic myth know people are going to scream Tolkien. I agree with others find a way to make it origional. If you have talking animals were they born that way? Genetically enhanced or is there something supernatural in a certain stream that made them sentient. To find out how C.S. Lewis's animals became sentient read "The Magician's Nephew." It's the Genisis of Narinia.
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