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Post by scintor on Jun 18, 2009 21:02:57 GMT -5
Hmmm, a world of Autistics . . .
Well for one thing, an Autistic society might be an oxymoron. Autistics tend to be antisocial as a rule, and without regular people to help keep them together, you might just end up with a large collection of hermits. (My WIP features a company with a high concentration of such people called savants, but in order for them to function and thrive, they are assigned partners called counselors to keep them from self destructing.)
Scincerely,
Scintor@aol.com AKA Mark McDonald
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Post by metalikhan on Jun 19, 2009 2:39:26 GMT -5
I've been watching this thread with interest. I have to wonder if the opposite question should be asked. Not what world are these folks from, but what world are so-called normal people from? Is there a normal?
I've known very few people that haven't struggled with some form of social or personality or learning "glitch", saddled with one label or another through the decades. Our society wants us to conform to such a narrow band of abilities that they make little room for the marvelous variety that God designs in us. So much potential remains untapped because our society views those outside that narrow band as damaged, more deserving of pity than of the extra effort needed to access that potential. It's just so much work — which, I think, says more about our culture than about those it looks down on.
In the early sixties, my middle sister was diagnosed hyperactive. At two years old, she would get so wound up, she would run in circles until she collapsed or until one of us could catch her. At 3, she was taken for brain scans to measure activity level. She was supposed to hold still for at least 60 seconds for a full reading — 18 seconds was her maximum, with the brain activity level "abnormally" high. The doctors wanted to keep her on phenobarb — at 3 y.o.! Our folks wouldn't allow it and worked ceaselessly with her, teaching her to control her emotional outbursts and channel the intense energy level in positive ways.
My next sister was born hypoactive — didn't turn herself over or attempt to crawl until several months later than most babies. Slow to develop in several ways. Severely dyslexic, she struggled in schools that didn't understand how to teach or test her. Written text defeated her, but she was brilliant with memorizing anything she heard. Throughout her school years, everything she learned was by our folks or me repeatedly reading her lessons aloud to her.
Too often, I saw condescension masquerade as compassion. Modern diagnostics and therapies have come far since those days; but it still has far to go. I think of all the little boys drugged into submission because the education system is not geared to teach children who don't behave they way they think little girls should behave. Little girls who don't conform to this unreasonable ideal — there must be something wrong with them, too. How much harder it is for the boys and girls who process information or social interactions differently than their contemporaries!
God is never pleased when we look down on others with a "big me — little you" attitude. He blesses His children who willingly and selflessly give the extra effort to bring out the best in others whose minds work differently. Regardless of what we struggle with, His grace is abundant for all of us.
Knowing what condition you're dealing with is a big step toward learning to deal with its challenges and trusting Him to meet your specific needs. I'm praying, Walden, for an outpouring of God's peace and the comfort of the Holy Spirit holding your hand as you go to your evaluation later today.
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Post by Christian Soldier on Jun 19, 2009 13:11:47 GMT -5
I agree, MK. My nephew has been diagnosed with four+ disorders that his doctors are working hard to medicate. While I don't necessarily agree to that level of medication, he does need help. My problem is that the public school system is not, in any way, prepared to deal with him, and neither are his family. Well, most of them.
When I married Jamie, I went from having virtually no family at all to having a rather large one. Frankly, I found it exhilarating at first. But I was concerned when all the adults, minus their parents, mentioned how bad the three children's behavior was. I can see one kid or the other acting up, but all three? Something's going on here, I thought. So, Jamie and I had them over to stay the night. (Jamie, of course, knew all along)
...
It was terrible. They acted like kids the whole night: playing and laughing. I couldn't believe it. Who would have thought that a kid would like like a kid? So... I had a blast. I never really grew up anyway, so a bunch of kids is more fun to me than much anything else. They loved it too, after all, none of the other adults played with them at all, much less wrestled on the floor.
Ah! The benefits of being raised by cats. When your adoptive parents are on the floor... you join them, no?
So the moral of the story is this: sometimes we should let a kid be a kid instead of a vertically challenged pre-adult.
Oddly enough, I never have any trouble out of him or his siblings.
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Post by torainfor on Jun 19, 2009 15:16:21 GMT -5
My problem is that the public school system is not, in any way, prepared to deal with him... I have a good friend who's a SpEd Aide. It is not an easy job. This last year, she had three first-grade boys. Not even the teacher is assigned more than one for one-on-one tutoring. On a daily basis, she got kicked, punched, cursed at, anything you can imagine. She didn't give up, though, because even her most difficult boy would go home and actually say he liked school for the first time. But it was very emotionally draining on her, and whenever she went on vacation and her boys were absorbed by the teachers and other aides, she was heralded a hero. One day, her most challenging boy threw a fit, so she took him into the office, sat on the floor, grabbed a couch cushion and let him punch it for 45 minutes. When he'd calmed down a bit, he started sucking on his shoe. So she took his shoe. So he sucked on his socks. She took his socks. So he sucked on his feet. She told him he could go back to class and get his shoes back when he calmed down. I think it took another fifteen minutes punching the cushion before he was finished. And then he was great all day. And that night, she could barely move her arms!
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Post by waldenwriter on Jun 20, 2009 1:48:14 GMT -5
Hi everyone. Well, the appointment was today, so I thought you'd all like an update.
The doctor was very nice, we talked for a good amount of time. Then he gave me forms to fill out (including an arbitration agreement) and talked to my mother (with my permission, since I am an adult and have to give permission to disclose my treatment info to anyone else). There was no firm diagnosis at this appointment, but he said there were signs. So that's progress. (This guy's a specialist in this stuff, so I'm sure he knows what he's doing).
He said he's had patients who go to the same school as me, and they have been able to get accomodations from Disabled Student Services. Though what those would be for an autistic person I haven't the slightest idea. I mean, Disabled Student Services usually offers accomodations like more testing time for people who take longer taking tests, notetakers for people who can't take their own notes, etc., as well as help for physically disabled people.
While I would be willing to seek out accomodations if I am eligible for them and they would help me, it's a touchy point for me still. I think this has to do with my concept of the term "disabled." I tend to think of someone in a wheelchair or of the mentally disabled people from The Arc that I see on the bus. I don't think that I could qualify as "disabled" in my view.
I also don't want to be perceived differently by people if I have such a label. I already grew up having to deal with being "different" than others; I don't want to live my whole life that way. I just want to be normal, or as normal as I can be under the circumstances. It's like, I'm already having the identity crisis that skipped me in high school, why add more?
Someone earlier said Asperger's is called the "genius disease." But being a genius is a lonely life. I read a biography of Beethoven, my favorite classical composer, a while back, and it talked about how much he isolated himself from the world when he was composing. The loneliness, coupled with his increasing hearing loss, must have driven him mad some days. Yet, at the seemingly lowest point - when he couldn't hear at all - he composed the Ninth Symphony, containing the wonderful "Ode to Joy" melody, and received 5 standing ovations (a number usually reserved for royalty when they entered a theater) the night of its premiere. So hope remains.
So, in short, it went well and progress was made. My next appointment is on July 22. We'll see what happens then.
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Post by Christian Soldier on Jun 20, 2009 15:26:06 GMT -5
I can't for the life of me figure out what kind of services would be required by someone with Asperger's Syndrome... I've never been diagnosed with it, but I have all the symptoms. Well, except for the near sightedness, but that's because I got that fixed.
My Prayers continue to go out to you, WW-- CS
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Post by Jeff Gerke on Jun 20, 2009 19:18:06 GMT -5
Thanks for the update, Walden. I'm very glad you feel like you're getting some answers--or will be soon.
I can't possibly imagine what it must be like to have the "disabled" moniker applied to myself, unless I'd become a parapalegic or something.
I think if I were you, I wouldn't tell anyone. I'd use the "genius" brain God gave me to figure out how to blend in most of the time. Then possibly I'd play the "disabled" card when all else failed or when it might help untie a knot that had, despite my best efforts, gotten tied. Not that you'd hide it, but you wouldn't walk around with a T-shirt about it.
You're not disabled. You're not handicapped. You're smart and everyone else is weird. They're jealous. But you're in their world and you have to figure out how to swim by most of the problems that might crop up.
On the extra helps in school stuff, do you process verbal instructions quickly? My son does not, so the extra repetitions of the instructions really do help him. Don't know if that would fit you though.
Jeff
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Post by dizzyjam on Jun 20, 2009 20:23:22 GMT -5
Jeff,
I think that's great advice and I think I'll take that advice too in regards to my own situation. It works better for the continuance of my healing anyway and keeping the positive confession of what God's done for me going.
Walden, what he's said is absolutely right, so do go with it.
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Post by waldenwriter on Jun 21, 2009 1:59:23 GMT -5
On the extra helps in school stuff, do you process verbal instructions quickly? My son does not, so the extra repetitions of the instructions really do help him. Don't know if that would fit you though. I'm not sure. I know at work I do better with remembering what tasks I have to do if I have a written list. Yet there are times where I can still remember information for a test if for some reason I forgot to study, mainly because I retain well from the lectures. I do have trouble finding good study methods. Maybe this is because, unless the class is noticeably difficult for me, I tend to do well even if all the studying I did was cramming on the commuter train on the way to class (which I've developed a bad habit of doing). It's odd, I wasn't a procrastinator in high school at all, but in college I find I procrastinate a lot. It is possible though that I miss some verbal things the teacher says because of how neurotic a notetaker I am (even in church during the sermon). I read somewhere you're supposed to listen 80% of the time and write 20% of the time when taking notes, or something like that. But I don't think my ratio's like that. I'm also not good in group work, especially group projects. This might have to do with my Asperger's or it might have to do with my bad experiences with groups where I had to step up as the impromptu leader just so things would go smoothly, or where I'd end up doing a lot of the work because the others weren't pulling their own weight. Case in point: last fall in my Human Heredity class we had to do a project on a genetic disorder. I was going to do it alone, but one of the girls from the group I'd been doing quizzes with persuaded me to do it with her and the other girls from our quiz group. The result was bad - we had trouble arranging meetings and the work didn't seem like it was divided evenly. So I don't know if I'd be in the same boat.
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Post by Christian Soldier on Jun 21, 2009 14:23:23 GMT -5
Stop. You're starting to sound like me. I learn best through lecture or through doing. One or the other. I also learn best that which is uncommon knowledge... but the fact that I am here demonstrates that fairly well, I think.
In my mind, I have a distinct advantage over everyone else: my brain runs almost 200% faster than anyone else's. True, sometimes I get tripped up if I don't let it work for me or I get flustered, but you learn to deal with it in time. When you do, everything becomes easier.
The price for that speed is the short term memory loss. Lists, like you said, help our a great deal. Outlining on project helps, too. I write down everything I can. true, I get made fun of from time to time, but while I'm waiting for them to finish talking, I'm working on my book or planning my college classes out. Or may I'm thinking about a book I'm reading. Once those slow lips cease their chatter, I say that comment that's been there for a few minutes and drive on.
And all that gets much worse when I introduce caffeine.
Even with all that, I can function in the "normal" man's world. While it is always good to know what your options are, like what DSS offers, it is not a good idea to depend on them. In fact, I'd try not to use them at all. Like any advice, do not ride this advice off a cliff.
If you need the help, use it. It is better to use the tools you have to succeed than to fail trying to do it on your own. I used to be on medication for my ADD symptoms until I was able to control it. Some people simply aren't able to and I do not look down on them. In fact, one of the Sergeants in my unit has severe ADD, or a related disorder, and takes medication for it. Why would I look down on him for needing that extra boost?
I suppose that the moral of the story is this: don't take more help than you need, but don't fail on your own, either.
May God bless you through your tribulations and trials--CS
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Post by JenLenaMom on Jun 21, 2009 15:02:46 GMT -5
Walden, you say you miss alot of what teachers say in lectures, have you ever tried recording the lecture at the same time so that you can listen later and fill in your notes more extensivly?
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Post by dizzyjam on Jun 21, 2009 23:47:50 GMT -5
Glyn, I know what you mean about listening to someone and having that automatic answer. Other people like to criticize folks like us for talking too soon and stuff like that, but it's true that some people out there should just close their mouths sooner because everything they say after a certain point is useless. I love the synergistic feel that I get when I meet someone who thinks and talks the way I do and we're talking about a subject we both like. Of course, problems can ensue when we come at things from different angles. Sometimes it just looks like an argument because we're exchanging opposing ideas so fast or sometimes it really is an argument and the confusion gets really bad at that point. But the rare friends I've had that are that way with me have been great and even when we have arguments, we usually get over them and move on with things. I've learned how to listen to people over time, but I'm still a bit more blunt than most can take when I do reply even though I've been working on it. Some people just aren't ready for the obvious solution to their problem.
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Post by Jeff Gerke on Jun 22, 2009 7:21:02 GMT -5
Walden,
It sounds like your verbal processing speed is very high. I don't know as much about Asperger's, but in some forms of autism (like my son's), there's no way he could do well on a test just from retaining what a lecturer said. For him, hearing things spoken is like translating from another language he has only just begun to study. But he's a terrific reader.
Jeff
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Post by Christian Soldier on Jun 22, 2009 7:48:49 GMT -5
Asperger's tends to lean more towards Dyslexia on that sort of thing. I, for instance, retail virtually nothing I read unless it's on a handful of subjects... none of which have school subjects named after them. Anyhoo, it doesn't usually take the fun out of reading, but it does make it harder to study and take notes. Actually, it makes reading more fun to me: I can re-read the same book over and over without getting tired of it simply because I don't remember what happened in it ^^
As for hearing, as long as I stay calm and concentrate on what the lecturer says, I can usually retain it, only having to write down dates and important names, but not the facts around them. Does it work that way for you, too, WW and DJ?
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Post by waldenwriter on Jun 22, 2009 15:50:18 GMT -5
Christian Soldier: I do have that loss of short-term memory. Someone could have told me something minutes ago, and I could've already forgotten it. Thankfully, I'm not as bad as Drew Barrymore's character in the movie 50 First Dates (who due to a car accident had no short-term memory capability at all). I also tend to start up conversations with complete strangers on the bus, and minutes of conversations could go by before I remember to ask the person's name (if I ever do, sometimes I forget entirely and never learn the person's name).
JenLenaMom: I've thought about that; I have taken classes in transcription so I could theoretically take down the notes from a tape later. I think you have to get permission for that at my school though. My main listening issue comes from trying to get down everything on say, a PowerPoint slide the teacher is showing, while the teacher has stopped to focus on one single point on the PowerPoint. I have a laptop and can type pretty fast, which is generally how I do this. Classes that don't allow laptops I generally do a bit better at listening to the teacher in because I can't manually write as fast as I can type. I also get bored in class even when I have to take notes, and find myself doing something else on the side, like surfing the net if I have my laptop. I even started writing a fanfiction when I got bored in my Physical Anthropology class a while back.
Jeff: I read very well too, and try to keep up on school reading even if the teacher doesn't check to see if we read (in my History of U.S. Foreign Policy class this semester, I brought up something in class from one of the readings and the teacher was apparently so impressed I was actually keeping up on the reading she kept bringing it up in the class period...it was a little embarassing; also my Human Heredity teacher caught me reading on a bench one day last semester during a break between that class and my next one and was impressed when I told her I was trying to keep up on the reading).
In these first two semesters of university, the reading has become so massive that I hardly have time to read for pleasure! Ah well, I guess it comes with being a Literature major. My reading for my minor (French) is usually the lightest, with Lit being the heaviest. I should mention that my Lit teacher these last two semesters is openly feminist, meaning that her choice of novels is unusual. Most of the authors we read in US Lit I this semester (which was taught by her) were by women, with the exception of some essays by Emerson, a short story by Hawthorne, The Last of the Mohicans (which I didn't really care for), the Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass, and some of the poets we studied. I will admit, I liked more novels from this class than from the Ethnic American Lit class I took from her last semester (which that particular semester focused on Hispanic and black authors).
Also, both of the history classes I have taken have had a lot of reading; the reading for my History of U.S. Foreign Policy class was particularly harsh at the end of the semester, when three of the four books required beside the 2-volume "brief edition" textbook all came up on the syllabus at the same time. Two of the books were very negative in viewpoint, the third was also negative but attempted at least to be objective. The fourth book, assigned during the beginning of the semester, was informative (giving info on the four schools of U.S. foreign policy) but had very long, tedious chapters.
The other history class - on Modern African History - was less negative but had a main textbook with ridiculously long chapters (and which I got only 1/5 of the purchase price back from at buyback - $8 for a book I paid $40 for) that I now wonder if I could've held on to as possible research material later on. Plus the teacher's lectures were very hard to follow due to his strong African accent and also the way he structured the lecture outline he'd put up on the overhead projector (no PowerPoint for this guy). The other books - Chinua Achebe's novel Things Fall Apart and Frantz Fanon's essay book The Wretched of the Earth - were a little lighter, though I was annoyed when I found out after the fact that we weren't required to actually read all of Fanon's book - just a couple essays - and I had suffered through all of that long boring book for nothing. Things Fall Apart, on the other hand, I enjoyed very much.
I can certainly retain, especially if I'm calm. But I usually write down all the details anyway, because I've found most college teachers don't always tell you exactly what will be on a test, so it's good to remember anything you can. It also helps to know the details for writing papers and stuff.
*** Wow, that was a long post. I hope I answered everyone's questions.
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