Apologetics: Who is the master?

[Resha Caner]

tris,

Yes and no. One must have faith in the saving grace of God. Whether one needs to know the historical facts of Jesus of Nazareth is a different matter. The Hebrews of the OT had a promise, but didn't live to see the fulfillment. Yet, as stated in "Hebrews", it was still faith in that promise that saved them.

So, I think every person who has ever lived has access to the truth. God can use different vehicles to convey it, but it is the same truth. I am a little leery of "God can use any way he wants" statements, because it opens to the door to pluralism - that Buddha and Mohammed and Confucius also articulated paths to God. No, they didn't.

[tris]

Resha,

No argument there. I've dealt with too many of the all roads lead to water type of Christianity. The only name by which man can be saved is through faith in Christ. And the scripture is pretty clear on faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

Hopefully to clarify... There is only one truth. And all that Christ has revealed to us is the only way to that truth is to tell someone else about Christ.

However, as you said, God can use different vehicles to convey it. I would have written Lot off as not being a person of faith if the Apostle Paul had not called him righteous. Look at it this way, if you had grown up in India in the Karen tribe, the only god you would have known would be the one your tribe worshipped. But suppose you longed for the truth and pursued it your whole life and tried to please the only god you knew. No missionaries ever came to your village. all you had were your tribe's traditions that Ya would send his messenger to tell you how to trade your old skin for a new eternal one.

My point is, that God in His wisdom and mercy can count that as righteousness as much as He did Abram's faith, if He choses. However, as Christians we cannot depend on that, so our responsibility is to share the gospel with everyone we can. Much as Adonirum Judson did when he found the Karen, (who by the way had been waiting for generations for Judson's book -- the Bible. Their legends told that Ya would send it.)

Language changes, as do cultures. I think Lewis would probably have used a different way of stating his idea today. I have far more problems with Madeleine L'Engle equating Jesus with Buddha in Wrinkle in Time.

[Resha Caner]

Thanks for the clarification, tris. Legends like you speak of seem to be common among many "lost" tribes. Hmm. Wonder if there's a common spiritual force at work there ... you know, someone named Yahweh or something like that.

The key is that they accept the Gospel when it's presented to them. Some (like Denethor in LOTR) prefer to sustain the stewardship of waiting for the king rather than accepting him when he arrives.

[tris]

Nov 14, 2009 12:07:41 GMT -5 Resha Caner said:

T
The key is that they accept the Gospel when it's presented to them. .[/quote

Exactly! Their original understanding may be viewed dimly (as through a dark glass), but their hearts are constantly seeking the Truth, because He is the One calling them.

I mentioned earlier a book called Eternity in Their Hearts. It's an accounting of all those different legends from around the globe, including some interesting accounts in the Chinese language that indicate they, too, had the Truth long before we suspected.

One of the Chinese characters for righteousness is the symbol for lamb over the symbol for me. I think the one representing forgiveness are the symbols come to the man on the tree. It's been awhile since I read the article on that one.

Personally, I think Christianity has been the plumbline all along and that all the other world religions (including mythology) are deviations.

Unfortunately historians try to convince people (and do a pretty good job of it!) that Christianity is a new thing, some sort of deviation or sect of Judaism. They don't seem to understand it's a fulfillment, so it's always been a part of history.

One of my passions is ancient history and how Christianity affected it. (by ancient, I mean really ancient prehistory up to before the time of Christ)

[asinus]

Flannery O'Connor's story Parker's Back singlehandedly changed me from an iconoclast into an iconodule.

Never underestimate the power of well-crafted fiction to drive home a point.

[themantheycallcris]

tris and Resha,

I think you'll find that Chesterton's "The Everlasting Man" deals exactly with the fundamentals of your conversation here. As I've said before, I think he was off on some things, but the overall of the book and many of the details are good (i think).

...though no source beats the Bible!

[shawn]

Timothy Keller, the Pastor at Redeemer Presbyterian in New York has written an apologetics book called 'The Reason For God'. Its one of the best I have read, and very similar to Mere Christianity.

[keananbrand]

I'm not gonna jump into any debates on this thread, but I did want to mention an excellent apologist that I enjoy listening to on the radio, though my schedule rarely allows: Ravi Zacharias (http://www.rzim.org/).

[yoda47]

I'd agree with C.S. Lewis for all-time.

Modern day, Ken Ham and the others at Answers in Genesis. (No, I'm not affiliated with them, sadly.)