|
Dragons
Jan 30, 2012 12:05:41 GMT -5
Post by fluke on Jan 30, 2012 12:05:41 GMT -5
Quick note: Leviathan is the sea dragon. Behemoth is a swamp dweller (lieth in the shady fens). I once looked up Behemoth and Leviathan in the rabbinic literature. They were called the beasts of the feast and represent evil. When the Holy One restores the kingdom to Israel, Behemoth and Leviathan are slain and served to the faithful. And there were a couple of rabbis who spotted Leviathan swimming behind their ship on a sea voyage. One saw it and called the other over. By the time he arrived, L had dove down. The first described the beast (especially the eyes and nostrils) and the second said, "you have seen Leviathan."
Interesting note about Behemoth. The word is feminine plural (-oth ending) but the verbs around it are singular. That means this thing is so grand it gets pluralized on size alone! (Never quite seen a hippo big enough to qualify for that.) The common word for God does the same thing with male endings. Elohim.
|
|
|
Dragons
Jan 30, 2012 18:17:01 GMT -5
Post by Divides the Waters on Jan 30, 2012 18:17:01 GMT -5
Fluke, I am collecting accounts of encounters like this. Can you point me to a link or source on that sighting?
|
|
|
Dragons
Jan 31, 2012 10:25:26 GMT -5
Post by fluke on Jan 31, 2012 10:25:26 GMT -5
The Jewish Encyclopedia has some information on it. I can check the seminary paper I was writing when I found that. It was a paper on monster [dinosaur] sightings in human history. Another thing I just noticed when looking is that Leviathan is described in a Jewish poem for Shavout (Pentecost) as having fins (and thus is kosher). The Jewish Encyclopedia gives two sightings. One was by R. Joshua and R. Eliezer. I can think of only one R. Eliezer, and he was quite high ranking among the sages, a student of Johanan b. Zakia, colleague of Gamaliel the Second, and teacher of Akiba (who did lead the Sanhedrin). He is the sixth most quoted sage in the Talmud, and if he hadn't been excommunicated, he probably would have been elected Av bet Din, head Rabbi. He was active after the fall of the temple. The other was by R. Johanan: "Once we went in a ship and saw a fish which put his head out of the water. He had horns upon which was written: 'I am one of the meanest creatures that inhabit the sea. I am three hundred miles in length, and enter this day into the jaws of the leviathan." The citations in the Encyclopedia are weird, though. Some of them use abbreviations I'm unfamiliar with. BB I c. That's not a Babylonian Talmud tractate numbering. Pirke de-Rabbi Eliezer states that the fish that swallowed Jonah was almost itself swallowed by Leviathan. This is from Baba Bathra 75a, I will see if I have the exact citations for the sighting I found.
|
|
|
Dragons
Jan 31, 2012 22:31:09 GMT -5
Post by fluke on Jan 31, 2012 22:31:09 GMT -5
Divides,
Argh! I found the paper, but since this class had them done as presentation and not turned in as full term papers, I didn't mark my citations in the paper as well as I should have. It might be from Genesis Rabbah (which narrows it down some).
I did find these in the paper, though.
"There is a place in Arabia, situated very near the city of Buto, to which I went, on hearing of some winged serpents; and when I arrived there, I saw bones and spines of serpents, in such quantities as it would be impossible to describe. The form of the serpent is like that of the water-snake; but he has wings without feathers, and as like as possible to the wings of a bat" (Herodotus, Histories 2:75-76).
b. Other historians corroborate Herodotus’ account. Other ancient historians speak of the winged-serpent or flying-reptile. Playing by Herodotus’ rules (which means they must have been able to confirm the reports by seeing them, interviewing eyewitnesses, or reading reliable documents), these men include Aristotle, Cicero, and Josephus. Beyond the serpents existence, several other facts (i.e. the natural enemy and poisonous nature of the flying-reptiles) are consistent between the accounts.
a. Prosper Alpin of the 1500s wrote a natural history of Egypt. He describes the same creature as Herodotus. He was slow to believe such a creature existed, but he verified their existence with a large number of independent eyewitnesses. He called it the basilic because of the its head crest.
b. Felix Fabre also writes of the basilic as a dangerous animal he saw during his trip to Egypt from 1481 to 1483. He does not provide any description. c. Aldrovandi, a leading naturalist of the Renaissance tells of a savage serpent with flexible wings of gristle. d. Edward Topsell, one of the top five zoologists of 16th century Europe, gives five different eyewitness accounts of the winged-serpent in various parts of Europe. e. Belon observed and sketched one in the 16th century. f. Meier, an Italian taxonomist, had a flying-serpent in his museum. 6. Other pieces of history a. North America Indian rock paintings of sauropods, pterosaurs, and other dinosaurs. Sioux tales of the Thunderbird are well known and have always been drawn similar to the Pteranodon.
b. French missionary to Africa Abbe Lievain Bonaventure Proyart reported fresh tracks in 1776. His description matches dinosaur tracks.
I hope these help. Sorry I couldn't get more specific on the Leviathan sighting. If I were still in Springfield, I could borrow a Talmud CD from one of my profs and search for it again. I'm almost positive it was in the Talmud and not Genesis Rabbah.
|
|
|
Dragons
Jan 31, 2012 22:54:13 GMT -5
Post by Kessie on Jan 31, 2012 22:54:13 GMT -5
Winged serpents? Whoa, that is awesome! I wonder if that's what quetzalcoatl was? I wonder if there's any left?
|
|
|
Post by yoda47 on Feb 1, 2012 8:54:44 GMT -5
Kessie:
There's evidence that one was around at least as late as the 1800's.
You should check out the Dragons book from AIG that I linked to earlier. It's got all kinds of eyewitness accounts from various periods in it.
|
|