A collision of universes

[dulci]

Just reading through the premise got my gears churning!

So, an idea:

What if, instead of it being a typical space-to-world invasion, that instead these two clashing societies inhabit the same exact position in space in two different universes/galaxies or in two different times?

What if the invasion was one of the breaking down of these barriers between two separate-universe worlds, and two societies fighting to retain control of their own lifestyle while pockets of their world are the fantasy world and pockets the scifi society? THAT'S an invasion of a whole other sort!

And, what if these two worlds are really two divergent histories, spread apart thousands of years before the current story? What if the people in these societies are really the same race(s) and what scares them most is looking through the "mirror" and seeing/meeting people who are like them but so completely alien?

Tell me what you think!

[lexkx]

Actually, I really like the idea that two separate realities are colliding. It explains away the technology vs. magic question and provides both sides with reasons to either cling to what they know or reach out for the promise of a new way of life...be that way good or evil.

Question: would the SF technology work the same in the Fantasy world, and would Fantasy magic (or whatever we're using) have the same effect on SF?

In Him,
Lex

[dulci]

What if...what if the magic in the fantasy world was actually hinged on the "ghost" reflections of the parallel scifi world's technology? As in, if that tech didn't exist, then there wouldn't be any magic. But nobody knew this, because nobody knew that there were two separate worlds there?

Like, the wizards and whatnot harness energy that is really the by-product seeping over from the scifi worlds? And maybe when the worlds collide, the "magic" escalates exponentially, or deteriorates?

Or maybe a war between the two worlds shuts down big mains of scifi tech, and therefore also shuts down the magic?

[pixydust]

Oh, wow, I'm really liking this idea. It can create all kinds of paradox. We kill what we fear the most, but what if we depend on this thing we fear. What if it's sort of like the food chain? We're scared of the wolves so we kill them off, but when they're all gone, the trees and undergrowth die off from being stripped by the deer and the rivers change directions--the whole system begins to break down.

I like the idea of the "magic" being a sort of by-product. Maybe it doesn't die--maybe it gets stronger and corrupts certain people--maybe it's been growing and they've thought it was because they were so great, when in reality it was because this "other" world was growing closer and closer to them.

And the alternate history is very cool.

[dulci]

Maybe someone finds the key to higher and more powerful magic--and that's what makes the worlds collide, the scifi tech on overload or something?

Or, and I was sort of rolling this around, what if the use of magic in the fantasy world has adverse affects in the scifi world--shutting down their systems and such? What if it causes power surges and wrecks havoc there? Maybe they would build a bigger, larger system of power techs, boosting the power of magic in the fantasy world and then making the worlds collide?

Yeah, this definately would be paradox-crazy, but then again that's the best kind!

I like the wolves thing, that metaphor. So, who would be the wolves in this situation? Would the fantasy people, when the worlds collide, try and kill the scifi world, thinking them evil? Or would the scifi people try and kill the fantasy crowd, because they see that it's them who were wrecking havoc on their world? Or both--and cataclismic war erupts? But yet both would be dependent on eachother?

Maybe something in the fantasy world lends to direct dependence from the scifi world too, like completely symbiotic?

Awesome ideas, y'all! (I'm having a blast )

[dulci]

Another quick idea in this vein. Pixy, saw your female protag and got a quick idea: what if the people in the fantasy world's powers to see in the future are actually seeing into the scifi-future? As in, it's not like it's a direct what-happens-tomorrow thing, but because of their medieval perceptions, they can actually bend the universe and SEE into the other world, and percieve the events there as what will happen to them in the near future? Or maybe far future, in a prophetic-type sense? Maybe they see these echoes of things and their predictions of what they see in the "future" actually shape their own future simply by them declaring it, rather than it actually being the known future?

[pixydust]

This would be cool, cause they wouldn't really understand what they were seeing--kind of like reading Revelations--who knows what John actually saw. And yet Aoni would know doom is on it's way.

I think perhaps they don't use their gift much--maybe it's brought too many who've used it to a bad end? But certain people find it reawakening in themselves suddenly....

[Jeff Gerke]

Dulci,

This is really cool:

What if the use of magic in the fantasy world has adverse affects in the scifi world--shutting down their systems and such? What if it causes power surges and wrecks havoc there? Maybe they would build a bigger, larger system of power techs, boosting the power of magic in the fantasy world and then making the worlds collide?

I love the idea that the more power the SF world throws down trying to overcome the fantasy world's magic the more powerful the fantasy world's magic becomes.

Imagine the unexpected power the fantasy wizards would suddenly have. "Oops, sorry about your castle, sire..." Even parlor magicians would suddenly become mighty sorcerers, and the ones who started out as mighty sorcerers...? What if the necromancers suddenly had that much power? What if the alchemists suddenly had that much power?

Way cool idea.

Jeff

[pixydust]

I like the wolves thing, that metaphor. So, who would be the wolves in this situation? Would the fantasy people, when the worlds collide, try and kill the scifi world, thinking them evil? Or would the scifi people try and kill the fantasy crowd, because they see that it's them who were wrecking havoc on their world? Or both--and cataclismic war erupts? But yet both would be dependent on eachother?

Sorry, I forgot to answer this. Really, I didn't know which was which, it could go either way.

But if we head more towards the magic explostion, perhaps the fantasy people could destroy their own world while while trying to harness this new magic. ?

[Lletherial]

++ dulci writes: "What if the people in these societies are really the same race(s) and what scares them most is looking through the "mirror" and seeing/meeting people who are like them but so completely alien?"

I play with this idea in my proposal - that the SFW is the FW but 4000 years into the future.

++ dulci writes: "What if the magic in the fantasy world was actually hinged on the "ghost" reflections of the parallel scifi world's technology?"

This is a creative take on how the worlds are still connected - especially if they are the same race but separated by thousands of years.

++ pixydust writes: "I like the idea of the "magic" being a sort of by-product. Maybe it doesn't die--maybe it gets stronger and corrupts certain people--maybe it's been growing and they've thought it was because they were so great, when in reality it was because this "other" world was growing closer and closer to them."

Yes, this could develop some great storylines. And the dilemma of the worlds are collapsing in into each other (that is, if we're accepting the premise that this is the same planet but in different times) works with my proposal In the other plot sub-board) where I talk about the curving of space/time back onto itself.

Okay, those are some thoughts on the first half of the postings. Let me read the rest. :-)
lgp

[Lletherial]

Part 2

++ dulci writesn (referencing pixydust): "I like the wolves thing, that metaphor. So, who would be the wolves in this situation?"

Well, if there is an exchange between worlds, then the antagonists could be from both the SFW and FW. Leaders that take advantage of the "portal" between two worlds to exploit the opportunities found there...

Shoot, gotta run. Back later tonight.
lgp

[terry]

A conclict between magic and science would be a great mismatch. God rebukes Moses when he asuumes the power is his doing. Magic (Miracles) are greater than the creations ability to manipulate the creation's properties to their own advantage (Science/Engineering). Such a conflict is pitting the Creation vs the Creator. Whatever details we surround our story in, the fantasy world should tolerate the SF guys but ultiamately be the greater source of truth and wisdom. However...These worlds must be in a need of redemption. Magic should be real but very rare (There is a reason the good uses of Frodo's ring are balanced by his hesitation to become too fond of it). Jesus condemened a generations need for miracles. The greatest power cannot be magic or science it must be the faith, and our story should The beginning of wisdom is the fear of God. Not the end of wisdom is the fear of God-- we had that in the Middle Ages, and a mess-- but the beginning of wisdom... Magic yes, but carefully. Our entertainment options overflows with gateways to the occult. Thank you

[mongoose]

The occult makes use of magic. Magic is condemned. Magic, in the context of the occult, ancient palestinian cultures, wicca, etc. is the attempt by the creatures to manipulate the rest of creation to their own ends.

Contrast that with Miracles. Miracles are God's doing, and thus are not condemned in and of themselves, as is the use of magic (I'm talking scriptures here. You can do what you want in fantasy writing.) Miracles, in the context of Judaism and Christianity (maybe even Islam?) is when the creatures request action from the creator, and the creator chooses to manipulate other elements of creation on the behalf of the petitioners, but toward the Creator's ends.

An example of miracles, rather than magic, being used in a fantasy context is in Karen hanckock's stories. On several occasions, the sympathetic character tries to use the power of God to accomplish what he thinks ought to be done. It doesn't work. When, however, God tells him to do X and such, and he does so, THEN the power of God flows through him to accomplish what God wanted to do anyway.

Like I said, our story doesn't HAVE to follow scripture when it comes to the relationships between magic, miracles, technology, man's efforts, and God's work. I just think it should.