Jedi or Sith

[Kessie]

My husband's been playing a new Star Wars game (the beta of Old Republic). He's merrily playing a Jedi Knight, and trying to solve people's problems by Seeking Peace At All Costs.

Unfortunately, this sometimes leads to apparently giving the bad guys their way, even after they've slaughtered defenseless civilians. There's a point where two Jedi padawans have the hots for each other, and you have to break them up because "emotional entanglements lead to the Dark Side".

My husband and I have been discussing the ethics of the whole Jedi/Force thing. The Force doesn't care who uses it, and if you're a Light Side Jedi, you can only stay that way by shades-of-gray morality.

On the flipside, there's the Sith, who not only are allowed to have emotion, but are completely sold out to power and everything evil.

So, I wouldn't want to be a Jedi, but I wouldn't want to be a Sith. Why is there no middle-ground Force users?

I know some people around here are closet Star Wars fans. What do you think? Could you stand being a Jedi or would you lean toward being a Sith? (Or something else from the expanded universe?)

[Divides the Waters]

I'm an unabashed Star Wars fan, though I'm getting a little frustrated with a certain agenda being pushed in the modern stories. I've even gone so far as to create one of the web's premier SW timelines. But I have always thought the philosophy of the Jedi was vague and self-contradictory. I think I'd rather just be an X-wing pilot.

[yoda47]

Read up on Jedi Knight and Jedi Knight II

Kyle Katarn is a jedi who doesn't buy into all the Jedi ideals for the same resons you mentioned, and hates the Sith too.

So he's kind of diffrent. Also, Coran Horn from "I, Jedi" is another.

And that's why those two are two of my favorite characters in Star Wars.

Also, if you read some of the books, Obi Wan has some of the same thoughts, but still is a a dedicated Jedi. How he deals with that confilct is facinating, but they don't go into as much depth with him as they do with Coran and Kyle.

[Kessie]

Aaron: I, Jedi is one of the few Star Wars novels I've read (at my husband's insistence), and I grew up playing Dark Forces utterly to death. (And although I didn't much care for the Jedi Knight series, I followed it with interest as my brother played it to death. Especially Mysteries of the Sith. When Kyle goes bad for a while. ) :-)

So, really, the only expanded-universe characters I know are Corran and Kyle. And I think it's awesome that they trained as Jedi and then went off to do their own thing.

But looking at just general Jedi stuff, they're basically monks with lightsabers and their religion is so .... legalistic! The irritating thing is, it works. So you have a choice between legalism and the Light side and extreme dog-nasty evil for the Dark side. And in between you have loads of shades of gray going on.

It's really too bad Star Wars is copyrighted material because it's such an interesting premise.

Also, "Does this bounty hunter make me look Fett?"

[waldenwriter]

The "no emotional attachment" thing with the Jedi always bugged me. According to Expanded Universe, you're not even allowed to have emotional attachment with your parents because the Jedi take you away from your parents at birth (which is probably why Anakin was deemed "too old" for training). I'm guessing it's meant to be a reference to the Buddhist concept of detachment from the world (Star Wars in general has been accused by Christians of being very New Age-y, so I guess a connection to Eastern religions make sense).

Qui-Gon Jinn is another "maverick" Jedi. This is hinted at in Episode I (like when Obi-Wan says that if Qui-Gon just followed the Jedi rules he'd be on the Jedi Council) but is made more evident in the Star Wars novels about him. He is an example of the supposed dangers of emotional attachment, however, as after his dear friend among the Jedi, Tahl, was killed, his grief nearly pulled him to the Dark Side. (And now we know why he says "I wish that were so" in Episode I when Anakin claims that no one can kill a Jedi).

Other examples would be Ahsoka Tano (Anakin's padawan in the Clone Wars series), who seems kinda like a maverick to me, and probably Princess Leia (who becomes a Jedi later in life, according to the novels, despite the protests of the Council).

In a way, I understand the logic - that emotional attachment would distract you from your duties as a Jedi - but to claim that it always leads to the Dark Side seems a little harsh. You would think there'd have to be a middle ground. I'll have to look into this.

(By the way, that stuff about the novels I got from Wookieepedia, the Star Wars fan wiki. I've only read Terry Brooks's Episode I novelization, which I didn't like very much at all because it was EXACTLY like the movie pretty much, leaving no suspense. To be honest, I don't even know where to START with the Star Wars novels).

[Kessie]

Maverick Jedi are the ones with emotions? Well heck, I'd totally be a Maverick, then. Too bad you can't kind of go halfway toward Sith and use your positive emotions to power up your Force skills.

Back in my fanfic days, I was beginning to explore the theme that having loved ones doesn't make you weak (like the bad guys always say in superhero movies). They give you a reason to fight harder against evil. They make you stronger. You'd think that could apply to Jedi, too, but eh.

As for not knowing where to start with the expanded universe, I highly recommend I, Jedi. Seeing as it's one of the few I've actually read. It's really well-written and I kept forgetting I was reading a Star Wars novel. It's just good spec fic.

[fluke]

I read The Thrawn trilogy years ago and loved it. It's set several years after RotJ and has Imperial Grand Admiral Thrawn returning from the far reaches of the Empire to take over the last remnants of the Fleet. He then sets in motion a campaign to reform the Empire. And as he was the Emperor's top strategist (sent to the far reaches as a just-in-case-we-fail situation), it just might work. (And Kessie, there's an insane Jedi who is no longer a light sider but not a Sith either.)

What makes Thrawn a great strategist is his ability to read his enemies. He analyzes art that their race produces to determine how they think and react.

Those were the first expanded universe novels IIRC. I'd recommend them. Also, the author is a committed Catholic. He writes with a Christian view of what makes the villains so evil. His villains are selfish.

[Kessie]

I guess the question I keep wanting to ask is, Is love the path to the dark side?

[yoda47]

The facinating thing about this though is the flawed worldview presented in the movies, thus the flawed view of emotion and love.

And yes, that's what makes it so fun to explore. (Well, for me at least.)

[Ranger Varon]

Jenaarai: A band of Force-sensitives from a planet whose name I've forgotten founded by a Jedi who corrupted by a Sith Holocron and convinced the Jedi had lied to him. They walk the line between Jedi and Sith.

Luke Skywalker removes the 'No attatchment' rule when he rewrites the Jedi Code in the New Republic era.
For Maverick Jedi, go with Quinlan Vos. He's my favorite Jedi, though he gets a mention and a very brief appearance in Phantom Menace.

For the answer, no. Love is not the path to the Dark Side. Anger and hate are. Love is a humble emotion. It places others first. Anger and hate often elevate the feeler to a high position in their mind, which may be why the Sith are always reaching for power.
(From a huge SW nerd.)

[Divides the Waters]

Ranger Varon, when I'm not writing, I moonlight as one of the nerdiest Star Wars nerds out there. As I mentioned in a post above, I have one of the premier chronologies on the web, which is about to find a new home at a much more prestigious venue. If you are amenable, I would like to shoot a PDF to you to see if it meets your approval. Same goes to any Star Wars fan here, naturally.

[Ranger Varon]

Sure, I'm amenable. You probably out-nerd me though, so I don't know much I can give my approval to.