Reviews, readers & writers

[j2starshine]

Since we are writers and readers, when we post reviews of books we read, doesn't that kind of reflect on us as writers? If we become pretty well-known for own works, what will the history of our reviews look like to the world? Are we judged for our reviews? I've not seen a famous author's review on Amazon, have you? Are we supposed to review under a different name or something? What are your thoughts on this?

[Bainespal]

I know C.S. Lewis wrote a classic review of The Fellowship of the Ring. (The quote from that review on the back of my three-in-one paperback was so interesting that I finally Googled it, and this is what I found: www.theonering.com/articles1-20549/TheGodsReturntoEarthCSLewisReviewofTheFellowshipoftheRing.) Does any know if C.S. Lewis wrote a lot of reviews? I know he wrote an essay about reviewing.

I don't have a writer's perspective, so I can't answer the question directly. I just know that I've greatly enjoyed reading good reviews. I want to write reviews in order to expresses the essence of what makes a particular work special, and to interpret it in a way that might make it more real to the readers of the review, whether or not those readers have read the work yet.

I think Amazon might not be a great place for all reviews. Amazon is consumer oriented; it's mainly for potential buyers to decide whether or not to spend their money on something. I never liked that Amazon treats book reviews the same as reviews of digital cameras or USB drives or breakfast cereal.

[j2starshine]

Brilliant! Love this: (which would kind of go along with the whole creating religions discussion)

"What shows that we are reading myth, not allegory, is that there are no pointers to a specifically theological, or political, or psychological application. A myth points, for each reader, to the realm he lives in most. It is a master key; use it on what door you like. And there are other themes in The Fellowship equally serious."

Also: "And one has, in fact, an uneasy feeling that the worlds of Furioso or The Water of the Wondrous Isles weren't there at all before the curtain rose. But in the Tolkinian world you can hardly put your foot down anywhere from Esgaroth to Forlindon or between Ered Mithrinnd Khand, without stirring the dust of history. "

Still. My first impression: C.S. Lewis was a friend of Tolkien, so I'd have to wonder how much that swayed his thinking. On the other hand, the review was richly done and not just glowing with flattery.

Thanks for the link!

[j2starshine]

about Amazon...I find it difficult to review a book when I, perhaps didn't like the style, but found it well written. So which star do I use...

[Bainespal]

Here's the part from C.S. Lewis's review that was most meaningful to me:

And after all the most obvious appeal of the book is perhaps also its deepest: "there was sorrow then too, and gathering dark, but great valour, and great deeds that were not wholly vain". Not wholly vain--it is the cool middle point between illusion and disillusionment.

He's right. The ability to do things that really make a difference, to be genuine and real instead of living in the foggy disillusionment of our daily experience -- I think that's both the simplest and deepest pleasure from fantasy. We need to accept the vanity of our lives, our smallness and weakness, or we are living in illusion. And yet, we also need escape from that small, dark world, because it is impossible for us to accept that world as the only reality. It cannot be the ultimate reality, because we have a need for a better one.

Part of the job of the reviewer is to interpret the themes and myth. The reviewer should help readers get into the right frame of mind to see and appreciate whatever glimpses of the ultimate reality the novel might present.

The job of the author is to set up the myth, to stir the longing for the Unseen within the reader. But that's for the other thread.

Mar 13, 2012 22:12:53 GMT -5 j2starshine said:

about Amazon...I find it difficult to review a book when I, perhaps didn't like the style, but found it well written. So which star do I use...

I agree. I don't really like the five-star system that much, either. It probably works better for rating refrigerators and permanent markers. ;D

[j2starshine]

Oh, I like that:

"The job of the author is to set up the myth, to stir the longing for the Unseen within the reader."

And I will have to keep this in mind when I do my reviews:

"Part of the job of the reviewer is to interpret the themes and myth. The reviewer should help readers get into the right frame of mind to see and appreciate whatever glimpses of the ultimate reality the novel might present."

[Kristen]

J2, thanks for bringing this up. I struggle with this. I hesitate to give a bad review to a bad book because I think someone might think "oh, she's just dissing the competition."

Then again, Brent Sampson in "Sell Your Book on Amazon" says not only should you review as many books as you can, he says you should review books **in your own category.** Apparently it all has to do with positioning yourself as an expert in the field. Not sure whether that works as well for novelists as for informational writers.

[j2starshine]

Hey Kristen! Thanks for your thoughts on this. It does give it a different angle. I've seen fiction proposals that want us to analyze the market.

I think this was from Writing Fiction for Dummies:

Analyzing your competition
Half page up to a full page telling a bit about similar books
Don't pick books that are too famous or too obscure.
Choose three to five books in same category as yours. Write a paragraph about each, giving title and author and a one-sentence summary of each. Explain how your book is similar and how it's different. Don't slam the others.

The purpose: is to demonstrate that you're familiar with your category and that there's actually a market for the kind of book your wrote. And shows that you understand how to analyze a story.


anyways...what you posted reminded me about that...I don't think I'd consider myself an expert on books...ever. I would like to keep my writing and reading separate in thought...does that makes sense? I don't want to review a work from a writer's perspective...is that even possible now?

[newburydave]

I think the star system is supposed to be an "I like it" ;D to an "I don't like it" scale, not some kind of technical style report.

IMHO reviewing a book should be similar to what we do when we Critique a fellow author's writing project.

In my simplified "Effective Critiquing" guide, that's part of the "membership download" over at the Anomalous Sandbox, I hit the highlights of what I found makes for a "useful" critique. The first point was "Personal - Do I like this genre? How readable did I find this story? Did you keep me in a "readers trance"? Why? Why not?"

I would suggest that this is the meaning of the star system, assuming that you like this genere (if not why did you buy it?) how enjoyable you think another reader with similar tastes would find this book/story.

In a very real sense it is a "buyers satisfaction" scale from "not satisfied" to "very satisfied". When I worked in industry I applied that kind of customer feedback scale to everything we sold.

Amazon is a merchandising organization, one of the most successful in the world at the moment. To Amazon selling a novel is no different than selling a toaster or a computer. Customer satisfaction is the measurement of how likely they are to make repeat sales of that item.

Now as Artists we may object to this kind of crass commercialism but as Authors who want to sell books it's a reality that we need to learn so we can thrive in it. If we want to be professional authors it's all about selling our writing for money, over and over again. Our name is our brand and we can only think about quitting our day job when everything with our name on it consistently earns 4 to 5 stars on Amazon or their competing merchandisers websites.

Therefore:

My suggestion is to fill out the Star rating by how well you enjoyed the total experience of reading the book. A totally subjective rating. Whatever else may have happened, how well you enjoyed the book will determine whether you are likely to buy another book by that author.

Principle #1; the star rating translates into the likely-hood of repeat sales.

Now you may have thought that stylistically the author has a lot to learn, or their grammar was a bit sketchy, or they should have used the spell checker/hired an editor/submitted it to the Sandbox or another writers group for feedback before they published it. That is the kind of thing to put into the written review. I assume that the authors read these so consider it a critique as well as a wave off for Grammar Geeks.

But the bottom line is "Did you enjoy reading it?" and "Would I buy another book by this author?" IMHO that is the most important thing to communicate in a review.

Some authors have terrible style and grammar to them is their mothers mother, but they tell a darn good story that keeps you awake nights to find out how it turns out. They should be encouraged.

Anecdote: I deleted a book that I bought on my Kindle for style and grammar sins . Later I bought two books and couldn't put them down. When I checked for other books by the same author I discovered that his first book was the one I dumped for bad writing craft. He persisted and is now a very readable author and he writes really good stories.

Other authors have perfect style, grammar and spelling but their stories are as interesting as watching the grass grow in your back yard. IMHO they should be warned that writing is probably not their best career choice until they get some life experience and have something to communicate to the reader.

==================

Bottom line is that this is an imperfect world and with the advent of Indie-ePub there are a lot of books out there that haven't been vetted by objective editors. These reviews are an increasingly important means to

1) Warn other buyers/ readers away from the poor writing that has become part of the Indie-ePub blizzard;

2) Encourage the good story tellers to keep at it, and if needs be polish up their style, etc.

3) Flag the truly good stuff out there so the rest of the book buying public can find it.

IMHO as Authors we are a uniquely educated part of the Marketplace which is choosing the new winners and losers of the Authorial game in the New Publishing Paradigm which is emerging. I feel that we have a unique opportunity and I would submit, a responsibility, to act as agents to do what we can to push this New Paradigm in a good direction in terms of Art and Encouragement for Talent.

Well that's my $3.27 worth on this anyway.

Write on and read on beloved Siblings

SGD
dave

[newburydave]

Case in point

I just bought a Kindle novel that fits my schema for policing self published works.

It started out well. Good POV focus, a strong plot with interesting sub-plots developing, good (though stereotypical) character development and excellent introduction of the crisis to drive the book.

That was the free sample that you could download to check the book out.

Well I paid the $3.99 to get the rest of the 120,000 word novel and am very disappointed. It feels like the rest of the book was written by a different person than the one who wrote the sample chapters.

The style switched from the typical 3rd person POV focus, following one character to a poorly done 3rd person Omniscient focus that started head hopping shamelessly.

The original plot lines totally disappeared (the main POVs and their aircraft were accidentally sucked into an interstellar cruise ships shuttle bay and left there for three days without any of the alien crew even knowing they were there ). From that point the story turned into Tom Swift style narrative summary (massive telling) of how the cruise ship worked. I was reminded of the "Steam Grommet Factory Trope" from the Turkey City Lexicon.

Instead of the tightly drawn CIA operation/drug cartel interference/secret agent involvement plots the expanded POV character group were suddenly lounging in the lap of luxury and looking for something to do. (Dramatic tension from +10 to -100 in three pages) Even the love triangle that the author introduced was so insipid as to be below mention. There was sex implied but no passion and when one of the females got possessive the other one said "Oh well" and just walked away .

I don't know what happened. I hope this isn't a new scam to game the Amazon sample system.

I intend to post a review and warn others away from this book. IMHO this author if he is a real person needs to go back and learn his craft properly.

[Kessie]

Dave: Oh wow. That sounds really lousy.

I downloaded this one book, where the summary was something about some king in India or somewhere looking for a legendary unicorn, meanwhile this kid and his mom find a mysterious horse.

So I started reading. The first page was about this town in India. And the second. And the third. I skimmed forward and as far as I could see, the first 20 pages were all about describing this town. I don't know where the story was in there. I gave up. I haven't left a review because I haven't had the heart to slog any further in the description.

[newburydave]

Kessie;

You know how a novel should be structured and how to start a successful book. The fact that you found such a total lack of proper craft in the opening of this book indicates that the person who wrote it has not "earned their spurs" as an author yet. Narrative summary about a Location in the first "pages" of a book is not good authorial workmanship. A paragraph at most and better only a few lines shows an author worth reading.

I submit that you learned enough to realize that this was probably not a good purchase to make. You're not claiming to be doing a comprehensive critique of the book, just making a purchase decision based on your better than average knowledge of what constitutes good writing style. Give others the benefits of your labor in learning to write good fiction.

I reiterate my comment about selling a book being no different than selling a toaster. If this were a toaster you just bought that wouldn't "stay down" would you give it a good review or warn people away from it (Okay, after Amazon replaced it and the second one did the same thing). I think you'd probably warn other consumers away from it.

I was recently looking to purchase an FM transmitter to link the radio's in my home so my wife could listen to her Internet radio in more that one room. (It broadcasts the audio from one radio to others at the other end of the house). I relied very heavily on the customer reviews on Amazon in making my purchase decisions (and the decision about which internet radio to buy). The "big Names" you always hear advertised had very poor reviews and an obscure manufacturer (one I don't associate with radios) got a great review by a woman who sounded like my wife when it comes to technology. We're very pleased with the equipment that I finally bought, easy to use, etc.

I think we owe it to the book buying public (our potential customers) to honestly review the books we read so they can find the gems and avoid the badly written ones.

=============

In answer to one of the questions at the beginning of the thread; yes, if we become known by our pen name as a reliable source of good reviews that guide people into good book purchases I think it would be another good way to build a professional reputation in the Amazon or Barnes & Noble marketplace.

Remember the old advertising adage "There is no such thing as negative publicity". Once people get to know your name they're more likely to look favorably on a book you wrote. Psychologists call this the favorable view of the familiar.

Write on sis

SGD
dave

[j2starshine]

Thanks for your thoughts. I've been...blog surfing...sort of and came across Michael J. Sullivan's blog post that had another take on this. www.riyria.blogspot.com/2012/03/on-writing.html

I can see his point on not wanting to do book reviews, but I'm also a reader too. I'm constantly looking for a good read and I rely on what others have said about books, (taking it all with a grain of salt) and it feels natural to to leave reviews as well. I hadn't thought about readers learning to trust our reviews and how that could translate into a platform of sorts. And if we are professional in the way we review the books, readers will see that as well. So we won't be labeled as being a planted 5-star reviewer or an arrogant writer pitching a hissy-fit.

[newburydave]

JStar;

I checked our Mike's blog. Since he is self taught and apparently somewhat successful I can understand his reluctance to review. It's probably a skill he never truly developed beyond self editing which is far different from Critiquing other writers. He's probably missed the broadening of perspective that comes from mixing it up with other writers and studying the material of the kind of excellent writing teachers we have available in the Anomaly's associated websites and books on writing.

However, I'm persuaded better things of our Anomalien family. I believe, based on discussions on the Anomaly and critiques I've seen and received over in the Sandbox that we can all deliver better, more useful (to the author) reviews than your typical layman/woman's "I liked it"/ "I didn't like it" emotional response type of reviews.

Some of the reviews I've read (I usually read the reviews before I buy) actually do try to critique the book, but it's rare that a typical reviewer has the understanding of proper writing Craft and Style that I've found in the Anomaly family of writers.

So as a reader you can render a "like" / "didn't like" scale reading; but as a writer you can probably give a pretty good reason why using terms that another writer could use to improve their next book and another reader would recognize as making sense.

Write on Sis

SGD
dave

[newburydave]

Mar 21, 2012 8:40:30 GMT -5 newburydave said:

Case in point

I just bought a Kindle novel that fits my schema for policing self published works.

It started out well. Good POV focus, a strong plot with interesting sub-plots developing, good (though stereotypical) character development and excellent introduction of the crisis to drive the book.

OK, update on this book.

I kept reading and after wading through more exposition the Author did get back to the plots and some dramatic tension. He introduced a pirate attack on the Cruise Liner and the Main POV, his CIA operative girlfriend and the Navy Top Gun F18 fighter jocks were pulled in to work out a defense plan. (Tired old saw about Earthlings being a violent, unpredictable race but good to have around in a fight).

The author also picked up the thread with the CIA and the POV's family back on Earth; Plus a somewhat transcendent visitor.

So, for any who care:

He's still lapsing into large chunks of exposition and that detracts. It kills off the dramatic tension. And the alien tech isn't too much advanced over 21st century earth.

But, I guess I'll finish the book and then review it with a crit for the author's benefit.

The story is a bit hackneyed at this point, not sure it's believable from a psychological perspective, but it's marginally interesting. It sounds like this author is an inexperienced Indie-epub guy, but he does know flight operations.

SGD
dave