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Post by Bainespal on Jul 17, 2013 19:21:32 GMT -5
The morality and literary merit of "gritty" or "edgy" content in fiction is probably one of the hot button talking points for us. I recently finished watching a television series that definitely veered into "gritty" territory. I ultimately liked the show as a whole, and it got me thinking about how it used "gritty" content wrong to its detriment, and how it might have used it right at other times.
The show was the new Battlestar Galactica. I'd watched the original one from 1978 a couple years ago, and I loved its mythological suggestions, heavy Biblical allusions, and serious portrayal of science fiction tropes. Then I watched Babylon 5 and was intrigued by that show's brilliant mythopoeia and recurrent religious themes. I'd heard that the new Galactica had drawn from the foundation of spirituality found in Babylon 5, and I had very high hopes for it.
Another thing Babylon 5 and the new Galactica share is heavy realism. Galactica goes further, showing characters sitting on toilets and vomiting on themselves, depicting blood and too many uncomfortable sex scenes. Both Babylon 5 and Galactica were also realistic about human social problems, showing sincerely well-meaning people who should get along hurt each other for petty personal reasons, frankly depicting human suffering.
The excessive drama and vulgarity definitely backfires at times. At a couple points, Galactica feels more like soap opera than space opera, and those were the places where it almost lost me.
But other times, the visceral impact works in association with the myth. One of the first scenes in the series to enforce its recurrent theme of circularity ("All this has happened before, and will happen again") shows two characters talking about destiny. The extreme realism that had already been established was what made the scene become so memorable and meaningful to me. The scene was powerful, because the realism of the characters and setting made it feel enough like reality that the idealism shining through despite the grittiness seemed especially genuine.
I love great, idealistic stories such as The Lord of the Rings, and always will. But there was a time as a young teenager when I was depressed because Middle Earth wasn't real, and it seemed that Mr. Tolkien was a whole lot better of a worldbuilder than God. At other times, I doubted God and His goodness because of stupid little things like feces and acne. I've looked into the toilet and wondered why God would create such an undignified, disgusting bodily function. I've wondered why a good God would create something as repulsive and easily corruptible as human sexuality. Christian speculative fiction fans like to talk about our lives as an "epic story," but it surely doesn't seem very epic.
The real world seems small and vulgar, and I read fiction (and watch space opera shows) partly to escape from it to the greater reality. But escape is not enough. Good escapism is the flight of the prisoner rather than the desertion of the soldier, but God has not allowed us to completely escape from this miserable prison. We have to live here, and it sucks. We need stories that mirror the ugliness of real life but also lift real life up toward idealism and redemption.
So the dilemma is this: Too much "grittiness" and the story loses the glimpse of transcendence that makes it all worthwhille; not enough "grit," and the vision seems disingenuous and cruel.
Battlestar Galactica clearly got the balance wrong in places, but it also intermingled a real sense of transcendence with the pessimistic realism of "grit" better than I'd seen before. At its high points, my faith that God's reality is in a sense the most epic story of them all was strengthened. The end of Galactica is glorious, and it forms a surprisingly close parallel to the Bible's story of sinful humans looking by faith for a better world.
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Post by newburydave on Jul 18, 2013 8:21:30 GMT -5
Deep stuff B., but essential stuff if we are to write a story world with redemptive impact on the reader.
I'd not heard the "epic story" reference before. The dewy optimism of youth probably. I suppose at one time I held that view about life, both before and after I met Jesus. The difference was which story we were trying to live out.
As a sinner I bought into the whole "Political Utopia" line of crap, was willing to sacrifice my life to bring it to pass. As a disciple I realized we were instruments of redemption in the Father's hand and I did devote my life to reaching as many as I could for Jesus. The God part of my life was an epic story, I'm still amazed at what He's done for and through me over the last 43 years. Now my part of that story has been a story of one failure after another. We only soar when He lifts us up.
That line from the old love song, "You are the wind beneath my wings," describes how it feels when God takes us in hand to work His works.
After 65 years of life and 43 years as a Christian disciple I look back without the rose tinted glasses of youth. Everything of my physical that's gotten broken over the years has either been removed or bypassed and God promises me more years of opportunity to labor in His vineyard. (interesting that man's medicine is all about removing diseased parts not real healing).
I'd chatacterize human life as a tragedy, due to the effects of the Fall and our utter brokenness and depravity. It is appropriate that the most commonly used Greek words for sin actually means "Missing what we aim at" (Harmartia) and "Being bankrupt, unable to pay our debts" (Ophilomia) [see the two versions of the Lords Prayer].
IMHO if you want to write realistic "gritty", transformative, fiction that parallels real life enough to engage people, I'd say you need to learn to write "the tragedy of human life, invaded by God's Grace, which brings the glory of Hope into the darkness of the native chaos of our self-centeredness [sinfulness]."
Well that's quite a mouthful. However I believe that's the thread the runs through the heroism and struggle of the most engaging Sf that I've read.
And, yeah; I agree that a certain amount of grittiness is needful to reach real people out in the world. The CBA crowd may not allow it but if we balance it with good Christian taste it should work. I just experienced this in my most recently submitted story.
I went overboard on modern grittiness and the Lord spoke to me about making it more "Faith friendly." I think that is especially true when we people our stories with Christian Disciples, especially mature Spirit Filled ones. We can't descend to the level of the secular media and follow them into the private spaces of life when we portray lapses under temptation or momentary weaknesses.
The way the Lord led me was to focus on 1) the active providence of God, making a way of escape from temptation, and 2) the POV's God given virtue [strength of Godly habits] rising up to avoid falling into sin when confronted by strong temptation.
Some have portrayed this as kind of thing as legalistic rigidness. That's one of the total perversions of Christian character that I feel called to expose as false.
In reality the greatest testimony of the reality of someones genuine faith is Godly living in the midst of this lust saturated world. No one can do that in their natural strength. Living pure (according to Biblical principles, not human Churchy notions) is the ultimate denial of our natural depravity and thus the ultimate proof of God living in us, pouring out His Spirit and Grace into our hearts to transform our every moment of life to reveal Him.
IMHO, something like this is the proper Christian Grittiness, or as Jesus put it in Mark's Gospel 'These [virtues] are the
Good Salt you must have in you [to be a preservative in the world around you]. If you lose the Saltiness of these active virtues you are good for nothing in My Kingdom. This [Christian] saltiness is what truly brings peace among you [and makes you effective in my service]'
(Mark 9:50 in the context of the entire chapter 9) [Dave's paraphrase]
So, accurately portray the temptations, then show the God upheld Christian response to them. That's the Grittiness / Saltiness that I believe the Lord want's us to put into our stories.
Does this sound right to you?
Write on my brother
SGD
dave
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Post by Kessie on Jul 18, 2013 12:37:05 GMT -5
Ahh, grittiness. It does have its place (I've been laughing my head off at that Sharknado trailer--it's like Jaws in the sky!). Like that one guy on a Spec Faith conversation with the poor guy asking for some "darker" books than the fluff commonly put out by Christians. The conversation went on to imply that only G-rated works can ever be Christian.
Some people have a higher tolerance for grit and gore and darkness than other people. I mean, who around here watches Walking Dead and Game of Thrones without batting an eye? I personally enjoy the heck out of Grimm and Doctor Who, both of whom go dark places and can get pretty gritty.
There can be a Christian message preached in the midst of grit and gore. Heck, that's where you want some kind of redemption the most. Higher contrast between dark and light, you know?
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Post by Bainespal on Jul 18, 2013 19:43:26 GMT -5
I think that is especially true when we people our stories with Christian Disciples, especially mature Spirit Filled ones. We can't descend to the level of the secular media and follow them into the private spaces of life when we portray lapses under temptation or momentary weaknesses. Okay, so you approve of portraying a Christian character who "lapses under temptation" at times, just not "following" that character into the details. There were a couple of pretty complicated discussions on the Speculative Faith blog about what is or is not appropriate for a Christian writer to "show" in regards to even non-sinful marital sex in a story. I'm not aware of anyone having said that such things as promiscuity or rape can't happen in a story written by a Christian, only how that plot point is presented to the reader. I'm more interested in how the little "gritty" details like vomit, blood, and realistically crabby and annoying "good" people can enhance a well-written story when cast in the perspective of a greater purpose for those miserably mundane lives. Being "gritty" in this way without a meaningful plot and an overriding sense of dignity in this way feels nihilistic, which is bad. My point is that while I thought Galactica went overboard on the gritty from time to time, it indeed had a strong enough vision that there was no feeling of nihilism at all, and the story ended up being rather good and inspiring. So, accurately portray the temptations, then show the God upheld Christian response to them. That's the Grittiness / Saltiness that I believe the Lord want's us to put into our stories. Does this sound right to you? Yes, as long as the "Christian response" doesn't necessarily have to be Christians resisting temptation, or even Christians repenting and facing the realistic consequences. I think we should show a Christian response to sin. We show the ugly consequences as they are, whether or not that specific sin is able to be redeemed within the confines of the story. But by the use of "grittiness," I was not primarily talking about responding to sin in a dark way. Thanks, Dave. As always, you are full of wisdom. Some people have a higher tolerance for grit and gore and darkness than other people. That's definitely true. Maybe one of the proper functions of storytelling is confronting the darkness, but we don't all confront it the same way. I found some of the grittiness in Galactica to be encouraging and helpful, because I have a hard time seeing God's wonder in my life and in this mundane world. Seeing characters with realistic problems, even a realistic portrayal of human inconveniences and nastiness, who went on to take part in a literal destiny was quite moving to me. There can be a Christian message preached in the midst of grit and gore. Heck, that's where you want some kind of redemption the most. Higher contrast between dark and light, you know? Yes. |
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This Baron of Mora
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?Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.?
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Post by This Baron of Mora on Jul 18, 2013 21:51:08 GMT -5
Interesting how you should bring this up as I was just reading a bit of a thing about a similar topic. This article from a magazine I was given titled 'Tragic Worship' talked about the need for tragedy even in the Church as well as touched on entertainment etc. so I will reiterate some of its message as well as spin around my own little workings.
The article starts of much as you do but with a different topic, the Churches. They are not entertaining enough, there rock music and 'Hallmark Channel sentimentality' cuts out the ugly stuff (or grit as you say) and neglects the fact that "in the midst of life we are in death" in other words the tragedy of human life. So Churches become more of a psychological break than something that shows both the truth and helps in the long run.
Tragedy of course has a strong history even in literature, Achilles (who is a jerk) going to war out of grief from his cousin's death, Shakespeare's well known plays (which are full of Catholic and Christian themes), you can also think Dickens (his are a different sort I would say), Aristotle famously praised tragedy as perhaps the greatest of literary forms for it showed all the flaws, great falls, and the nobility of virtue at its finest and seeing such a clash an audience/reader would know the truth about what it means to be human.
Les Miserables is also an excellent example combining tragic characters (Fantine) as well as a sort of 'former tragic characters' in Valjean who is redeemed, as well as the fall of a man who tried his whole life to follow the rules.
Many parts of the Bible also touch on this, whether the obvious paradox of a Man who died becoming a greater King than the brutal Caesar, or the long epic tale of the constant struggle of Israel and the Hebrews constantly showing the shortcomings of even the most righteous of men (David for instance). Another strong example would be the Silmarillion in the tragedy of the Noldor fighting a losing battle etc.
The article also mentions how the Churches used to meet this need better citing the former practice in Traditional Protestant lituragies to 1). Treat Baptism as death and resurrection rather than simply washing away, 2). Read passages out from the law books to remind people that eternal death was the punishment for their sin but then follow up with the gospel reading creating a sort of death and redemption cycle every Sunday.
As said there are also tie ins with entertainment; of mention are some quotes by Pascal and a lament that the entertainment industry threatens to become more realistic than that which is depicted in weekly services.
Pascal's Quotes (from 17th Century France):
-"I have often said that the sole cause of man's unhappiness is that he does not know how to stay quietly in his room."
-"Distraction is the only thing that consoles us for miseries, and yet it is itself the greatest of our miseries."
'Distraction' of course should not be confused with longing, that effectively is what Tolkien meant by his version of escapism but also glimpsing the profound in both the everyday and the heroic deed. This touches on the other sort of 'genre' that functions, paradoxically, along with the tragedy (and is often at least a minor element in it). I wouldn't call it idealism, nor do I have a precise name for it but it has been called many things "joy", "Northernness" (C.S. Lewis), "laughter", "wisdom and innocence" (G.K.C.), "truth", etc. And by this I simply mean that you see (or rather glance) what might have been had not the tragedy unfolded, and what will happen when the tragedy comes to it close (remember that whenever you write tragedy).
Hope that helps, God bless.
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This Baron of Mora
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?Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.?
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Post by This Baron of Mora on Jul 19, 2013 17:46:49 GMT -5
I have a hard time seeing God's wonder in my life and in this mundane world. Forgot to comment on this, and it goes along with my last part. Anyway, I suggest you read about the life of St. Francis and more specifically G.K. Chesterton's biography of him (I linked the online version below since it is in the public domain) for Chesterton too lived his life like Francis did. St. Francis is the primary 'wisdom and innocence' example, it's tricky to explain concisely so I end up quoting myself on something I wrote last night (coincidentally) in a response from the narrator to a character much like St. Francis: "Realizing this I suddenly interrupted him saying, “How did you come to know the world as you do, you act as if every rock is your very brother and yet are always surprised by his presence as if he were some long lost friend who had drowned years ago at sea?”" archive.org/details/francisofassisi00chesuoft^I must, of course, admit that I haven't read said book as yet, though I certainly will reasonably soon. I am currently reading a biography of Chesterton which mention said book as well as the parallel between them to which I endeavor. |
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Post by Bainespal on Jul 20, 2013 22:20:29 GMT -5
Sorry for not replying to you right away, Baron. I'm a slacker. Tragedy. That's a relevant point. I think tragedy is not quite the same as the not-very-intellectual or well-defined term "gritty" that I've been using. Tragedy is a necessary component of all great stories, because the human story is one of tragedy redeemed. I think grittiness is closer to horror than to tragedy. It's a specific, deliberate portrayal of realistic details with a pessimistic bent. Say there is a depressed man in a story, and the man gets drunk in his misery. That would be tragedy. There are a lot of ways that the particular part of the story about the drunkeness could be portrayed. If the story goes on to show how he reels in the street outside the bar, falls down and cuts his face, and then vomits all over himself, that would introduce a level of grittiness. "Gritty" is more about presentation than actual story content, I think. I don't think all stories have to or should include the same level of grittiness. Perhaps many stories need very little grittiness. But I think it's appropriate for some stories to be told in a gritty style, and if those stories are well told, the grittiness will contribute toward and not detract from the portrayal of grace and transcendence, because the lives that we know seem very "gritty" to us. I think Christian fiction as a whole could use more calculated grittiness, and I think some Christian speculative fiction writers are working on just that. Forgot to comment on this, and it goes along with my last part. Anyway, I suggest you read about the life of St. Francis and more specifically G.K. Chesterton's biography of him (I linked the online version below since it is in the public domain) for Chesterton too lived his life like Francis did. Thanks for the link. I have never yet read a single book by Chesterton, which is annoying, since I've read almost all of Lewis's, but it seems like you can't really talk about Lewis without also understanding Chesterton.  I plan to rectify this deficiency soon, of course. |
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Post by newburydave on Jul 24, 2013 21:25:15 GMT -5
It seems to me that the world is looking for reality, not some edited version of what we authors think they should see or hear.
Make your characters real to them, make the reader identify with them because they are inhabiting a reality that the reader would want to live within, and they will vicariously live through whatever experiences you write them into.
To my mind that is the sweet spot for "asymmetric evangelistic writng". Real life has some grit in it; but if it's too gritty our readers won't want to live in that reality.
SGD
dave
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Post by Bainespal on Aug 1, 2013 19:18:34 GMT -5
It seems to me that the world is looking for reality, not some edited version of what we authors think they should see or hear. It's strange, how similar good fiction and good journalism are! To my mind that is the sweet spot for "asymmetric evangelistic writng". Real life has some grit in it; but if it's too gritty our readers won't want to live in that reality. Dave, I think that's an accurate conclusion, and I think we pretty much agree. However, my big problem is that I don't want to live in my own reality, and I don't completely trust a story if its portrayal of reality looks too desirable. I need the reality of the story world to act as a sort of priest to intercede between my reality and an ideal reality. It has to be at least as bad as my reality, but truth and goodness must be far more attainable and visible. That way, I can try to see the truth and goodness in my own reality, instead of being distracted by seemingly meaningless "gritty" problems. |
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Post by newburydave on Aug 14, 2013 19:18:43 GMT -5
A good happy ending covers a whole lot of realistic grit (IMHO&E). Write on bro. SGD dave |
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I plan to rectify this deficiency soon, of course.