This Is How It Begins

[Jeff Gerke]

The accommodation of Muslims in America.

www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,397645,00.html

I'm torn because I don't think what Tyson has done is unreasonable. If I was the manager of 1,000 employees and 700 of them earnestly desired one thing, it would not be wrong to consider what I could do to keep morale high.

On the other hand, this is a slippery slope, in my opinion. Once you begin appeasing this particular demographic, you cannot stop. They will push for more and more. Their goal is to make everyone submit.

It doesn't take a futurist to know what a near-future story set in this country would look like, given this accommodation. All we have to do is look at France and England and Denmark.

As individuals, these people are dear to God. As a group, they're still dear to God, but they become a force not necessarily compatible with the tenor of American tradition. It's like the Crusades in reverse.

Sorry, none of that is very PC. And I don't want to sound fearful. Christ is supreme, greater yea even than Islam.

Still, we have millions of Muslims living in America now. Their pattern elsewhere has been to move in by the millions, usually taking very low-paying jobs, then begin agitating for things to be changed to accommodate their numbers (which to many nationals will seem to have magically appeared), and then demonstrating and even rioting to get their way. And what is the country going to do--there are millions of them here now, after all.

In a way--and this is also a very un-PC thing to say--it is a form of terrorism. Of using intimidation to force the accommodations they desire. America has to oppose terrorism on all its fronts and in all its guises. Accommodation, in this scenario, is defeat.

Jeff

[J Jack]

Using an example from my homeland, Canada's policies on foreign immigrants is far too lenient. We are allowing anyone who claims fugitive status in, giving them a chunk of money, and several of these are terrorists. Our accomodation of these people is extreme and innappropriate. I'm not being racist or anything, but when in Rome right? If I was to visit Iraq I would certainly follow their customs and learn as much about them as possible. So how come they don't do the same thing here or in the US?

Eventually, if Jeff's comment on rioting and protesting is correct, the only way to control cities will be to apply martial law and chaos will ensue because people don't know how to react to men and women with rifles and armored vehicles. This would make a great story but unfortuantly is a reality that we cannot avoid now. It's almost too late to reverse the "backwards crusades."

[Spokane Flyboy]

I actually have a plot synopsis about this floating around in my notebooks somewhere. Basically a world-wide insurgency between muslims and non-muslims as they seek to get Shari law instituted everywhere they've populated. Almost a "Red Dawn" type plot, but minus the rednecks with guns. Guns have been mostly been banned so the group only has access to what they can steal.

[mongoose]

There's already a plot based on this premise happening on the boards here. See the IC Matthew 24 thread. The muslim "usurpers" even have life signs indicator equipped UAVs, and extra-sensory perception due to their demonic possession.

Still, I'm convinced that the western world could co-exist peacefully with Muslims without bowing to Islam. If not, and if they bring in the great Tribulation, as I guess y'all are implying, I'm not going to look to my government or its military to save me. Nor will I advocate for a renunciation on our policy of being open to immigrants. The nations of Israel and Judah got into very hot watter for violating God's laws on this.

But in this story, the muslims have taken over and are hunting the Christians, using their U.S. Military allies to do some of the dirty work. We'll see where the story goes.

[newburydave]

I'm the other collaborator on Mathew 24, which has gone quiescent recently. This is only one scenario, there's still a lot of room in this pond of an idea.

[waldenwriter]

Union contracts are very tricky things. The day I started working at my current job, my coworkers who were union members were supposed to go vote for whether or not this new contract with the union was going to go into effect or not. I don't know all the details of the contract, although part of it involved reorganizing something with the pay structure. Anyway, the contract was eventually approved, basically saving Stater Bros from going on strike like the "Big Three" (Albertsons, Vons, and Ralphs) did.

Religious accomodation in the workplace is also tricky. According to Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, you can't be discriminated against at work because of your religion, and your employer has to reasonably accomodate for your religious practices. One example of this is, say you want Sundays off so you can attend church. By this law, your employer can't make you work Sundays if you request them off for the purpose of religious observance. Technically, I could claim this right if I wanted to - but I don't want to be a inconvenience to my workplace by doing so, since I already usually ask for 2 days off a week for school (since my workplace has a "no 6-day-workweek" rule - to avoid overtime, I think - everyone gets at least 2 days off a week anyway).

Another example: At one of the Stater Bros stores I worked at, one of the baggers went to one of those churches that don't let girls wear pants. We are required to wear black, tan, or navy pants as part of our work uniform (though everyone usually wears black). But in her case, they let her wear a black skirt instead.

I admit that the Tyson person who said most of us end up working holidays anyway, including Labor Day, is correct. My first year with Stater Bros, I was fortunate not to have to work on any holidays (except Martin Luther King Day, which was either my first day or fell during my first week). Last year, I did work some holidays, including I think Fourth of July, although not Thanksgiving and Christmas (Stater Bros is closed on Christmas Day, so we all get that off). So far this year, I was off on New Year's Day. A lot of my coworkers like to work on holidays because they get paid more (time and a half for most of us, I think, but even double or triple time for some people...it depends on how long you've been there).

I don't know what to think about Tyson's actions. What they are doing IS legal, as I pointed out. But your point about possible terrorism, Jeff, is something to consider. On the other hand, America has long been known as the Land of Opportunity, and the Statue of Liberty itself (through the poem on its base) invites those seeking opportunity - including employment opportunities - to come to the U.S. While the U.S. has not been afraid to restrict immigration before - consider the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 and the restrictions on Jewish immigration during World War II - to restrict Muslims from coming here, even for the sake of fighting terrorism, would mean trouble. Look at the current Yemen crisis - al-Qaida has threatened Yemen, and the U.S. and UK have closed down their embassies there as a result, fearing that the embassies may be al-Qaida's next target.

So it's a very fine line we walk here in America. Very fine.

[iconoclast]

How much can we accommodate people who choose to keep their own culture at expense and avoidance of those who allow them inside? This bbc news article which came out 5 years ago continues to haunt me:

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3417429.stm

If the Dutch government has had to concede that 30 years of efforts of encouraging assimiliation resulted in not winning over Islamic communities, maybe the approach is like appeasement which won no concessions.

[newburydave]

This is a real problem for any 'Liberal' democracy. I use the term 'Liberal' in the original sense of the term "tending to provide the greatest individual liberties to the people".

The founding fathers had a vision, based on Christian evangelism and discipleship, of the melting pot which absorbed successive waves of immigrants into the American culture of their new states of residence. The ideals of the nation were supposed to be the glue that held us all together. American Exceptionalism was one of the guiding ideals; that we in the US had an exceptional culture and national system among the nations of men. The religious revivals within the Christian churches were the fires that heated the melting pot.

When the Communist Political philosophers confronted the fact that communism didn't play well in the US, because the working class was dominant not oppressed, they went looking for ways to "deconstruct" western (ie. US) culture to make it vulnerable to communist inroads. (before I met Jesus I was a hard core Communist activist, so I know what I'm talking about from the inside of the movement)

The assault on Christianity in our culture started in the 1950's, the demonization of anyone who believed in American Exceptionalism by the advocates of Multiculturalism and the whole panoply of Political Correctness is the result of that planning to undermine western culture.

Most Americans today don't realize how Communistic they are in their thinking, especially the younger products of our public schools and universities.

Multiculturalism is doing exactly what it was designed to do, fragment society into a balkanized set of ethnic special interest groups who are pulling against each other, and the best interests of our nation. The goal is social and political chaos. Think about that for a minute.

Political chaos that will allow a "strong man", with a strong personality cult, to step in and exercise dictatorial powers to "restore order". Roosevelt tried that in the 1930's but there was a sweeping revival in the churches that stopped his power grab. (yes he was a communist). Those Presidents who use Roosevelt's playbook are constantly looking for the opportunity to do the same. Rahm Immanuel's statement that "you can't waste a good crisis" is chilling.

Once again the words of Abraham Lincoln at Gettysburg ring true. "Can a nation so constituted survive on this earth?" We are the generation that must determine the outcome of this struggle.

There was just as much if not more corruption in Washington then as there is now. Generals in the Civil war intentionally lost battles and threw away thousands of lives because they had political aspirations to replace Lincoln and the republicans as the ruling party in Washington.

In my humble opinion it is up to the Church. If we get serious and desperate in calling on God for sweeping revival we may be able to forestall the evil day for another generation. Every generation must face their own battle with fascist oppression. Every generation has men who would rise up and become the Antichrist, one world ruler.

The chilling lesson of history is that every time a Man of Sin stands up he seems to get closer to success before the free world stands up to stop him. The free world is the parts of the world where the Gospel still reigns in the hearts of the people.Will we prove ourselves worthy under the great test of hearts or will we be the generation that finally bows at the altar of the Beast, so we can continue to buy and sell with the wealthy.

"Once to every man and nation
comes the time they must decide. . . "

SGD

[newburydave]

Aug 5, 2008 8:01:10 GMT -5 Jeff Gerke said:

The accommodation of Muslims in America.

>>>Still, we have millions of Muslims living in America now. Their pattern elsewhere has been to move in by the millions, usually taking very low-paying jobs, then begin agitating for things to be changed to accommodate their numbers (which to many nationals will seem to have magically appeared), and then demonstrating and even rioting to get their way. And what is the country going to do--there are millions of them here now, after all.

In a way--and this is also a very un-PC thing to say--it is a form of terrorism. Of using intimidation to force the accommodations they desire. America has to oppose terrorism on all its fronts and in all its guises. Accommodation, in this scenario, is defeat.

Jeff

It is interesting to note that historically, this is the tactic that Nazi Germany used to take over Austria and steal the Sudatenland (from Czechoslovakia). They took over a whole country and the strongest defensive terrain in central Europe without having to fire a shot before the beginning of the WWII.

This was also the pretext they used to invade Czechoslavakia proper and Poland when they started shooting. They were going in to "protect the rights and lives of the German nationals in those countries who were being oppressed."

The Muslim Brotherhood was a close ally of Hitler. Yassar Arafat's uncle, Haj Amin, organized a Muslim legion in Yugoslavia to fight as part of the Wehrmacht after the British exiled him from Palestine.

CAIR sounds a lot like the German Bund organizations. The Bund existed all over the world, wherever there were people of German descent. The Bund was very active in the US. They were instrumental in keeping us out of the war for so long and in banning the immigration of Jews fleeing from the 3rd Reich.

Think about it.

SGD