Ideas from gamers and writers needed

[Christian Soldier]

So you're saying that the lake is originally fresh water and it becomes salt water so that the breather fish could live in it? What about all the fish that are already there?

[myrthman]

One question, Myrthman. If the breather fish lives in salt water, how did the MC get it by a freshwater lake?

I haven't worked out all the details yet, but my thought was (if you'll recall my seafaring elves from another thread) that elves discovered this fish and have been using it to further their oceanic explorations. MC steals, buys, earns, or borrows one to take to the lake where he learns that fresh water kills it. Of course, getting it there alive in the first place presents another problem.

[mongoose]

Salmon live in both fresh and salt water without any major problems.

[CastleLyons]

Nov 6, 2008 14:34:16 GMT -5 mongoose said:

Salmon live in both fresh and salt water without any major problems.

They've even found sharks a hundred miles upriver in several major rivers, including the St. Lawrence.

[scintor]

There are many types of fish who are said to thrive in a brackish environment. This is areas that transition from fresh to salt water, like rivermouths and lagoons. These fish often can survive in either fresh or salt water, and can transition from one to the other as long as it is done gradually.

Scincerely,

[e-mail]

[torainfor]

"Salmon live in both fresh and salt water without any major problems."

Yeah, no major problems unless you count the whole physical-transformation, don't eat, then die bit once they hit the fresh water.

[myrthman]

I didn't know that. I guess I could come up with another complication with the breather fish. I really like the divine intervention moment I've thought of.

[Spokane Flyboy]

Here in Washington, there's at least one town under Lake Roosevelt. The old town of Kettle Falls. I hear there are still some buildings down there, but I couldn't tell you if they were joking with me or not.

[Divides the Waters]

I'm not, as a whole, fond of "divine intervention" in a story unless you've done a really, really good job of setting it up in the first place. While you don't want miracles to be commonplace, neither do you want them to be facile ways out of a storytelling problem. If you're going to have the God of this world intercede, why even bother with the fish? Why not simply have the character able to hold his breath and tolerate the pressure for longer than normal? Are you going to have other instances in which divine intervention plays a part?

Myself, I have to confess to being partial to the notion of a diving bell.

[metalikhan]

Have you checked out how the pearl divers of Japan worked? Pretty fascinating. It might provide info about low-tech (no-tech!) diving for periods long enough to accomplish a task.

[seraphim]

Don't like the fish face so much...how would you see? Swimming would be hard...front end flopping around...not very streamlined.

Also not sure how deep the fantasy elements are...what sort of things are permitted.
Personally I like elements of Prachettian ingenuity:

1. A "Lavrador" retriever? See the the picture Splashy! Go Fetch! (Just stand clear when it surfaces and shakes") It is propositionally more believable if instead of a "magic mut"you have a freindly alpine seal or mountain river dolphin to do the diving...or a really smart and dedicated cormorant (a type of trainable fishing bird).

2. A "Lung Fish" instead of attaching to face...attach to chest or neck.

3. A food or drink that hyper oxygenates the blood to permit long submersions

4. A "Diving Bell"...a real bell that rings...and as long as its vibrating you can breath underwater...being heavy it also helps you sink fast.

5. Abyss style breathing fluid.

6. Just accept that you are going to have to die to get it and trust for some creative revival strategies.

[peterwilliam]

Well, the first thing that comes to mind when we're talking about an alpine lake high in the mountains, rising due to a dam, is wondering what it used to be. That high up, perhaps it was once a valley, maybe containing a great city destroyed as the result of a disaster of some sort. Perhaps the dam could be destroyed. There may even be a trail found in the lowlands, into the foothills, through caves that become increasingly moist the deeper into the mountain you go where a plug of sorts has stopped what would be the draining of this ancient city/valley. Even taking the traversing the water route has spawned, through the posts, a lot of great imagination.

[misterchris]

Pearl divers, according to 'The Pearl' by Steinbeck, hyperventilate, then grab a large rock and drop off a boat into deep water. They let go of the rock to rise rapidly back to the surface.

Much of this is going to depend upon your character's abilities, and the weight of said artifact. If a hero tossed it in the pool, I'd say it's on the order of a golden or stone amulet, not heavy enough to keep MC from rising.

So, I'd either go with a diving bell or weighted upside down boat lowered into the water, or use the rock-pearl diver method.

There's no reason to get fancy, and God is in the habit of passing out miracles only when there's 'no other way'. Often, he puts us in a position where we HAVE to depend upon Him (Israelites stuck between Pharoah and the Red Sea, Israelites in the desert with no food, Gideon forced to reduce his army to a pittance.

This is so that God GETS the glory for what He does. Since this is a Christian forum I have to assume here that this would be God you're talking about in perhaps an alternate form (like Aslan).

If so, some characteristics of the God we serve would be immutable and non-negotiable. And one of those would be that He expects and deserves the glory and doesn't perform the jaw-dropping part-the sea miracles for no reason.
(We're not talking about the miracle of birth, or His handiwork displayed, His gorgeous sunsets, etc.)

One might argue that Elisha, when he slaps the Jordan with the mantle from Elijah, is asking God for a pittance demonstration, but I would disagree - Elisha needed confirmation that he had received a 'double-helping' of God's HS, and so did the other prophets watching on the other side of the Jordan.

If I were writing this (and, granted, I'm not) I'd either keep a miracle out of this, or set up a 'no other way' scenario where God MUST intervene to save the day.

[Divides the Waters]

I'm with Mister Chris on this one. How did you end up solving the problem, or are you still working on it?

[myrthman]

I thought long and heard about the 'no magic' rule and decided to have magic but in a very limited way. In the story as it stands now, the valley where the MCs live is slowly flooding due to construction of a dam at the valley's exit by another country. The entire population flees. The MC later learns that the artifact he needs has been hidden in his village all along. He journeys across the continent to a place that allows time travel, goes back in time, finds the artifact without anyone noticing him (that's the goal anyway), and hides it in another, more accessible location so he can retrieve in his timeline. One of the characters that went back with the MC decides to stay behind and, without revealing too much, becomes a hero of legend in his own right but in another era of history.

Partially inspired, on the time thing, by Crichton's _Timeline_. Thanks for everyone's input. I just decided that diving down into mountain-cold water would be nearly impossible for the character and not as interesting as going back in time. Maybe I'll have him attempt to dive down; maybe he'll succeed and discover that the artifact is not there (because he already moved it). We'll see.