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Post by scintor on Jul 3, 2009 20:40:14 GMT -5
Well I had quite a day today.
Three firsts for the day:
First time arrested.
First time getting pepper sprayed.
First time being assaulted by an officer.
I was just scavenging a I do every day, when an officer told me that I needed to get out of the neighborhood. He didn't take it well when I let him know that I was not leaving because I was scavenging and was doing nothing illegal. When he told me to sit on a short curb and I replied that I would rather stand, I was pepper sprayed and forced to the ground and then arrested for interfering with an officer.
I now am ging to have to go to court and bring countercharges against him. As you can imagine, I am quite upset and could use advice and prayers.
Scincerely,
Scintor@aol.com
AKA Mark McDonald
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Post by dizzyjam on Jul 3, 2009 23:48:51 GMT -5
Wow! I don't know what to say, but I will certainly be praying for you.
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Post by veryblessedmom on Jul 4, 2009 7:26:05 GMT -5
Will pray too.
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Post by waldenwriter on Jul 4, 2009 10:03:49 GMT -5
Wow, scintor. That sounds tough. I don't know why an officer would stop you for scavenging, unless it's against city ordinance or something. City ordinances are odd. I just had to do jury duty for a misdemeanor trial and the defendant was caught *cough* doing his business in public, which is against city ordinance in the city he was in. Hopefully your only court involvement will be an arraignment or something of that sort, and it won't go to trial. That happens in California. I'll pray though that it works out. I looked up Lake Elsinore's municipal code just now (your profile says you live in Lake Elsinore), and it doesn't look like you were violating any city ordinance, except possibly the ordinances for refuse collection under Chapter 8.16 (but that's debatable). In case it might help you in court, you can view the municipal code here: www.codepublishing.com/CA/lakeelsinore/ |
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Post by scintor on Jul 4, 2009 10:36:26 GMT -5
No, he was just trying to run me out of the neighborhood. When I refused to go, he accused me of being a theif!
He just seemed to think that because he had a badge, he could tell me to do anything he wanted, and I had to do it, wether he had any legal basis or not. He didn't even think he needed to do things like give me a Miranda warning!
Scincerely,
Scintor@aol.com
AKA Mark McDonald
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Post by morganlbusse on Jul 4, 2009 11:11:01 GMT -5
Hey Scintor, Here’s the advice I have. Even though it sounds like you were in your rights, God tells us to obey our government authorities. “Remind the believers to submit to the government and its officers. They should be obedient, always ready to do what is good. They must not slander anyone and must avoid quarreling. Instead they should be gentle and show true humility to everyone.” Titus 3:1-2 (NLT) He also says as far as it is up to us to be at peace with all men. “Do all that you can to live in peace with everyone.” Romans 12:18 Jesus himself addressed the issue of soldiers asking the Jews to do something by saying the following: “But I say, do not resist an evil person! If someone slaps you on the right cheek, offer the other cheek also. If you are sued in courts and your shirt is taken from you, give your coat, too. If a soldier demands that you carry his gear for a mile, carry it two miles.” Matthew 5:39-42, emphasis mine. All this to say that perhaps instead of bringing countercharges against the officer, drop them. Yes, you were probably within your rights as a U.S. citizen to stay there, but you did not show respect to the officer by refusing to sit when he asked you. And I’m not saying the officer was right in what he did when he sprayed you, but in the end, we are responsible for the choices we make. And by dropping the charges, and acting different than most people would in your situation, you will give people pause and make them wonder why you’re different. P.S. This kind of post can come across as cold and uncaring and that is not my heart. Rather it is a heartfelt appeal from one christian to another who both are trying to make it in this world. Please read this in context of that! And yes, I will definitely be praying for you  |
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Post by Christian Soldier on Jul 4, 2009 17:40:04 GMT -5
Prayers away, Scintor!
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Post by Divides the Waters on Jul 7, 2009 14:29:02 GMT -5
Um... give me a call, my friend.
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Post by Jeff Gerke on Jul 10, 2009 7:50:05 GMT -5
Whoa, scintor. Jail! Yikes!
I agree that you were probably doing nothing wrong. I also wish you'd just sat down. But either way, you remain a dear part of our family and I will pray that God's will is done in, through, and around you during all this.
Jeff
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Post by morganlbusse on Jul 10, 2009 11:15:34 GMT -5
I was re-reading these posts and realized that I can come across as blunt as a butter knife. So if my "butter knife" words damaged your heart, I'm sorry ;(
To echo Jeff's words, "you remain a dear part of our family and I will pray that God's will is done in, through, and around you during all this." That is my heart as well! And I am also still praying for you and your family as you go through this financially difficult time.
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Post by dizzyjam on Jul 10, 2009 22:51:27 GMT -5
I know I've already spoken here (even if not much), and I'm not saying this is Scintor's situation, but having had my experience of living on the street at one time I can definitely say that there are cops out there that think the badge gives them the right to do whatever the "freak" they want to do. I've seen cops be quite rude to homeless people, and I had a few scrapes with them where I almost got arrested for things that if someone just used their heart on the matter there shouldn't have been a problem. My pockets have been emptied a few times onto the hood of the trunk of the cop car. It's never easy nor is it pleasant. Even though I was doing nothing wrong and didn't get arrested, I still felt violated by their even trying to get me for something. Been pulled over a few times too for crazy things they really shouldn't have pulled me over for. (perfect example: I was going just under the speed limit in the left hand lane to pass someone and a little later a cop gets behind me and I was pulled over for going too slow and was even given a written warning for it!) To this day, I'm still someone that's friendly to police officers when I see them. I hold no animosity towards them, but boy do they give me the willies whenever I see one behind me on the road or out and about in public wearing a uniform.
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Post by Teskas on Jul 13, 2009 12:52:13 GMT -5
A couple of my relatives have been police officers, and I was recently talking to one about scintor's experience. While I think scintor's and dizzyjam's experiences are unpleasant, and their treatment unfair, it may help if I comment a little.
A lot of the American police are drawn from former members of the military, who are used to taking orders when given by someone in authority. They expect to be obeyed instantly, and their own service experience may have been short on courtesy. Scintor's perfectly reasonable desire to stand may have been like a red rag to a bull in the officer's head.
Also, it doesn't take long for a police officer to develop a deep suspicion of the human race. They experience the worst that society has to throw at them, and understand, more than anyone, the "devices and desires" of the heart. Basically, they start perceiving everyone as a criminal (even, to some extent, their own fellow officers). This is not because everyone is a criminal, but because a "them-us" mentality starts to take over, and because (certainly in the case of city policing) most of the people who populate their work day in an intimate way are criminals.
There are emotionally mature officers who have a lot of compassion for their fellow man, and will treat even the worst sort of person with common decency. But there are others who hide behind their badge to get even with the hurts and wrongs that have come their way in life.
Aside from the maturity issue, some of these men are suffering from PTSD, both as a result of military experience, or from police experience. They can suffer from severe anxieties which they manage with inappropriate coping mechanisms.
Then also, the officer one meets on the street has supervisors. Maybe he's been slacking at work, or maybe he has a personality clash with his station sergeant, but he may have had his fortune read to him the start of his shift. "O'Reilly, you no-good bum, you haven't made any stops this week/handed out parking tickets/caught any burglars. Now get out there and work you lazy so and so." Believe it or not, some police authorities run a quota system for speeding tickets, stops, and arrests. On some forces, police can earn overtime and promotion by lots of arrests. It isn't justice, it wasn't written into the Constitution, but it is life.
Finally, it's dangerous out there. It it drummed into a trainee's head from day one to take no chances. "Better to face a jury of twelve than be carried by a party of six". A police officer would rather risk a lawsuit or a prosecution rather than his life.
My guess is that, behind the bully-boy treatment meted out to scintor, that police office might have been bit frightened of this guy rooting through the garbage. (Hence the order to sit on the curb and the unnecessary use of pepper spray.) Scintor was an unknown quantity to him, one of the neighbors was complaining, and Sarge back at the station said sort it out.
I hate to say it, but as much as I admire and respect the police, and count several as my friends, one wants to approach each and everyone of them with extreme caution.
I hope everything works out for you, Scintor. You have my prayers.
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Post by scintor on Jul 17, 2009 12:02:56 GMT -5
Hey everyone!
Thank you for all your kind words, even those that were reproving me gently.
I agree that the best thing for me to have done in hindsight was to sit down and avoid trouble. I am now paying for that with lots of panic attacks when I go out scavenging. (We still need the money, so I still go out.)
I have always respected and admired police officers, which has made this incident harder on me. I am stuck between my anger at this man and my respect for the difficulties that police face.
I want to let go of this incident and put it behind me, but I still have to face a judge on the charges in August. Please continue to pray for me .
Scincerely,
Scintor@aol.com
AKA Mark McDonald
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