|
|
Post by waldenwriter on Oct 6, 2009 18:26:24 GMT -5
I'm getting ready to write the first draft of my novel-in-progress and I have a question that needs answering.
My novel will be in third person limited. At least that's my intent. I think that POV works best for this story. But there are some scenes I have planned out in my novel outline where my POV character (my protagonist) is not in the scene. These scenes are primarily to set up tensions between one of the villains and a couple other characters (as well as reveal my villain's character). How exactly do I handle this? I had a problem with this before with a 1st Person novel I was writing, where I couldn't do some of my reveals the way I would've liked since my POV character had to be there all the time. Please help!
|
|
|
|
Post by beckyminor on Oct 6, 2009 19:28:47 GMT -5
Is there any reason you feel you can't have more than one POV character for this story? So long as you do a hard, obvious shift (like start a new chapter), I hear it's just fine to switch POV characters. It might even be quite interesting to offer your villain's POV on the situation, perhaps raising the stakes for your protag in the reader's mind.
Then, when your readers get back to your protagonist, you have the opportunity to play up the information the reader knows but the protag doesn't. Kind of like the old horror film situation where we viewers are saying "No! Don't go in there, you ninny! Can't you hear the creepy music?" (Okay, so that doesn't apply 100%, but I think you get what I mean.) Having scenes from the bad guy's POV just might give you some of that tension you want the reader to feel that you can't always get when the reader has to blunder along, only knowing what the single POV character knows.
Incedentally, I'd love to hear how it goes if you do use multiple POV characters. I've only read about doing it, and insofar have stuck to a single POV. It might be something to explore within the context of my short stories or a subsequent novel in my series. Hmmmm....
|
|
|
|
Post by juniperlee on Oct 6, 2009 19:29:49 GMT -5
Maybe you could switch the POV as needed like in the Twilight books. Although I must admit I found this annoying. Is this novel a fantasy? Perhaps there's some "magical" way you could go about making this work. J.K. Rowling used the Pensive in Harry Potter...  ? Best of luck with your idea and I'll keep trying to brainstorm some strategies for you  |
|
|
|
Post by metalikhan on Oct 6, 2009 22:19:24 GMT -5
When you do a POV shift, you can (as becky suggested) start a new chapter. Another thing you can do is make a physical break with a line of asterisks just like you would do with a scene or storyline shift if it occurs within a chapter. (That would mean a double- space, a line of *****, a double-space, then start in your next/new scene or POV.) However, you must find a way to quickly identify whose POV you've switched to. Since you're going to be in 3rd person limited, that will be easier than if you were doing this in a shifting 1st person; you can identify your POV character by name rather than trying to identify by some subtler means such as the POV character's style of speaking.
It would be a good idea to review Jeff's Tips that deal with POV and shifting storylines (#'s 28,30,42,43,89,90).
|
|
|
|
Post by kouter on Oct 9, 2009 20:06:38 GMT -5
Switching POV is perfectly fine. To achieve what you want, I would suggest creating a POV character to view your villain from the outside. If you get directly into your villains head you can kill some opportunity for surprises. Think about if you could create a henchmen or underling and use their POV. That way they can stay sorta neural to the plot and could also act as a dumb puppet to coax the villain to explain his master plan and such. My $0.02  Kirk |
|
|
|
Post by beckyminor on Oct 9, 2009 21:10:33 GMT -5
Switching POV is perfectly fine. To achieve what you want, I would suggest creating a POV character to view your villain from the outside. If you get directly into your villains head you can kill some opportunity for surprises. Think about if you could create a henchmen or underling and use their POV. That way they can stay sorta neural to the plot and could also act as a dumb puppet to coax the villain to explain his master plan and such. My $0.02 Kirk Genius! Somebody publish that man's work...  Seriously, though, Kirk--great suggestions. I may just have to tuck those ideas away some place to fiddle with in the future in my own stories. |
|
|
|
Post by tonylavoie on Oct 10, 2009 9:37:04 GMT -5
On the other hand, if you *do* write directly from your villain's head, you have an opportunity for an awful lot of tension, emotion and head gaming. Think of the roller-coaster you can take your readers on as they switch from the dark motivations of the bad guy to the good guy's desires to make things right.
Admittedly, you must tread carefully here, because you don't want readers to identify more with your bad guy than your good.
The upshot of all this is that yes, it *is* okay to switch POV to another character, so long as you make it obvious that you've done so.
|
|
|
|
Post by Divides the Waters on Oct 10, 2009 12:56:19 GMT -5
I prefer an outsider's POV for bad guys or really exceptional good guys. Orson Scott Card pointed out that the reason the Sherlock Holmes stories were so effective was the fact that they were done from Watson's POV, so you got to marvel at Holmes from a normal person's perspective. Just don't use third person omniscient, where you leap at random from head to head. But switching POV at a scene break or chapter break is perfectly acceptable. Sometimes it's even fun to alternate first and third person limited that way. In my first novel, I had almost considered a close POV (possibly even 1st person diary entries) for my main antagonist, but then decided it would be less disturbing and more effective to have his scenes done from the POV of his "best friend" (actually, just a miserable man who has the dubious honor of being liked by this monster), and found it was great for the sort of "is this a sympathetic character or not?" dilemma that people love to ponder over. |
|
|
|
Post by waldenwriter on Oct 11, 2009 14:34:46 GMT -5
Is there any reason you feel you can't have more than one POV character for this story? So long as you do a hard, obvious shift (like start a new chapter), I hear it's just fine to switch POV characters. It might even be quite interesting to offer your villain's POV on the situation, perhaps raising the stakes for your protag in the reader's mind. Well, the story is mainly about my protagonist and her quest to get her curse removed, and how she finds Jesus along the way. Meanwhile, she's also trying to break her curse before her father returns from war and deal with possibly losing her job if the theater she works at has to close down. Based on the chapter breakdown I have right now, I could do certain chapters from the villain's POV. Not sure yet though. Is this novel a fantasy? Perhaps there's some "magical" way you could go about making this work. J.K. Rowling used the Pensive in Harry Potter... ? Best of luck with your idea and I'll keep trying to brainstorm some strategies for you It's a science fantasy. It's mostly sci-fi but it has fantasy elements. Ah yes the Pensieve. Rowling did use that thing to her advantage, though in the case of book 7, its use seemed a bit like an excuse for an info dump. It worked well in the sixth book for viewing the memories of Voldemort. I'm not sure it would work in my case. Switching POV is perfectly fine. To achieve what you want, I would suggest creating a POV character to view your villain from the outside. If you get directly into your villains head you can kill some opportunity for surprises. Think about if you could create a henchmen or underling and use their POV. That way they can stay sorta neural to the plot and could also act as a dumb puppet to coax the villain to explain his master plan and such. That is one way of doing things. That was what I loved about the character of Shego from Kim Possible (one of my favorite TV shows). You almost sympathized with her for having to be a sidekick to the really dim-witted villain Dr. Draaken. Also, she was a superhero turned bad guy, which made her even more interesting. There are a couple of POV characters I could use for that purpose, although they're not villain lackeys. One is Nick the sound designer, who has to deal with being put down and somewhat upstaged by the villain's arrogant alter-ego, Terrence Houghton. The other is the veteran actor Barnaby, who more than once confronts Terrence about why he is spying on Avalon (the protagonist). On the other hand, if you *do* write directly from your villain's head, you have an opportunity for an awful lot of tension, emotion and head gaming. Think of the roller-coaster you can take your readers on as they switch from the dark motivations of the bad guy to the good guy's desires to make things right. That's definitely true, it makes things more tense. I prefer an outsider's POV for bad guys or really exceptional good guys. Orson Scott Card pointed out that the reason the Sherlock Holmes stories were so effective was the fact that they were done from Watson's POV, so you got to marvel at Holmes from a normal person's perspective. Just don't use third person omniscient, where you leap at random from head to head. But switching POV at a scene break or chapter break is perfectly acceptable. Sometimes it's even fun to alternate first and third person limited that way. I love Watson. He is a great POV character. He played well off of Holmes. Even when not with Holmes, his narration was great, like in the beginning of "The Adventure of the Empty House" when he believes Holmes is dead. Captain Hastings, a sort of Watson to Agatha Christie's Hercule Poirot, was similarly an excellent narrator. In my first novel, I had almost considered a close POV (possibly even 1st person diary entries) for my main antagonist, but then decided it would be less disturbing and more effective to have his scenes done from the POV of his "best friend" (actually, just a miserable man who has the dubious honor of being liked by this monster), and found it was great for the sort of "is this a sympathetic character or not?" dilemma that people love to ponder over. That's interesting. I wrote my character synopsis for this villain as a series of letters he sends to the king and queen who he serves in the demonic realm. They provided an interesting way of determining his way of speaking, if nothing else. Unfortunately, this villain doesn't really have anyone like a "best friend" that could comment on his actions. |
|
|
|
Post by tris on Oct 14, 2009 8:17:26 GMT -5
Good examples of switching POV can be found in the x-wing series of books by Michael Stackpole and Aaron Allston. They do the switch thing pretty often in terms of moving the story along and keeping tension built up. Solo Command is a good example, as is Iron Fist and the Krytos Trap.
|
|
|
|
Post by courageforever on Oct 14, 2009 16:40:35 GMT -5
Yes, that's a good reason for a point of view change. Tension, and to show another part of the story.
Really, if this is a third person story, changing the POV is no big deal. Just start one chapter (or section, as someone else pointed out) as if you're sitting on the hero's shouder, and the next as if you're sitting on the villians. The amount of headnoise you give for each character is completely up to you. You aren't required to show thoughts in 3rd person. 1st person, yes. 3rd, no.
In fact, if you want to show no headnoise, it would tend to make the character a little curious, a litte veiled, and that could be good. You better show lots of action to help paint the kind of person he is, though.
|
|
|
|
Post by Teskas on Oct 27, 2009 13:46:01 GMT -5
I've been reading older novels that violate the 3rd person POV rule with omniscient POV. It can really be irritating.
I wouldn't write the bad guy as the principle POV either, unless you want to structure your story so that the reader has a claustrophobic experience of evil. You might want to do that if you are transforming the bad guy in your story into a good guy. It would make an interesting story arc, but probably is really tough to write.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jeff Gerke on Oct 29, 2009 18:19:35 GMT -5
Teskas is right that it's important your reader like your protagonist. I've written about that in Tip #51 on this page. Jeff |
|
? Best of luck with your idea and I'll keep trying to brainstorm some strategies for you 
