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Post by morganlbusse on Apr 4, 2010 7:26:48 GMT -5
I think one more thing to add to all the marketing is before everything happens, write a really really good book. Learn everything you can about the craft of writing and apply it to your own work. In the end, if people find your book, but the writing is so-so, they will not pass your book on by word of mouth.
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Post by dragonlots on Apr 4, 2010 12:39:16 GMT -5
I agree you need to learn your craft and write a good book. Or even a so-so one. Stephanie Meyer has made a great deal of money on the Twilight series, and yes, I read all four books, and the writing is not that great. I know teens and adults who would argue with me about that. It’s an interesting story with a new twist and a lousy ending.
However, since writers are now expected to do much of their own marketing it pays to get a head of the game and get a grounding while you’re learning your craft and writing your book or stories. It sounds daunting. I know.
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Post by dragonlots on Apr 4, 2010 12:40:59 GMT -5
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Post by waldenwriter on Apr 5, 2010 1:19:28 GMT -5
Waldenwriter, I was a late bloomer. The only thing I knew I wanted to be was a writer. I never thought about what else I wanted to do. I didn’t exactly get the encouragement I needed from my parents and had a father who was trying to ‘push’ me into what he wanted me to do. That didn’t work out very well. Long story and I won’t go into the details. I’ve had a series of what I consider ‘loser’ jobs. They paid the bills but there was no future there. In my thirties I was fortunate to land in a great company that had everything I wanted. Unfortunately the company was sold and everyone lost their jobs. I can honestly say I haven’t had what I consider a ‘decent’ job since. They’ve been worked strictly for ‘survival’, even the one that paid very well that helped pay for my college degree. Or as I laughingly say, I did a lot jobs and now know what I don’t want to do. What I will share is that my last full-time job was pretty much dead end. It was in the mortgage industry and I knew what everyone did and had no desire to move up from my lowly file/mail clerk position. My last nine/ten months there were, in my opinion, a waste of my time and talent. The bad part is, employers will only contact me about file or mail room jobs. Grrrr. Or sales, which I wouldn’t do for ANY reason. In November, a friend gave me a lead for a tutoring company. I found a second and have been working for them. I have a couple more weeks before it ends. Luckily, I’m still collecting unemployment which will help. I’ve loved it by the way. Working with the children has been the most rewarding job I’ve had in a long, long time. I do have an interview for another file room job with a company five minutes from my house. It’s not ideal and I, like you, feel I should be able to do better. However, I’ve decided if I get this job the trade off will be worth it. It’s dead end. I know that because I know enough about the company to know they don’t have anything beyond a paycheck to offer me. What I get in return is a short commute, more time to work on my writing, won’t spend as much on gas, in fact, I might be able to ride my bike during the summer, and I don’t have deal with very much traffic. Not to mention having to sit, and sit, and sit, not moving when it snows. At this point of my life, I’ve decided a working career is pretty much a joke and what is important is my writing. My goal is for me to help pay off our debts so we can live my husband’s salary and I can quit and stay home. I do have a time frame in mind because there’s only so much time I’m willing to waste. I’m in what they call mid life crisis. It has really made me re-evaluate what is and is not important. My goals at this point in my life are completely different than when I was younger. I know many young people are impatient and unhappy with the current state of economy. So are a lot of mid life workers who have gotten laid off. Most of us realize we’re going to working well into our seventies and that retirement is pretty much not going to happen. Bottom line, you have time. You’re just starting out. It takes many years to get what you want. I’ve learned that from talking to others. Most work twenty to twenty-five years before they finally get the position they were after. There are a few exceptions, but not many. Seems our schools fail to teach that to the next generation. Yeah that has been the case for me too. I've known I wanted to be a writer forever, and that was really the main thing I wanted to be, even when I thought about being other things, like the careers I listed on the sheet we had to fill out for 8th grade graduation (I remember one of them was ambassador, although I don't think I knew what an ambassador did at that point). I didn't work while I was in high school like some people. I think this helped me focus on school more than I do now sometimes. My first job was an on-call job doing childcare at my church, which I started at the beginning of my senior year. I quit it the following year because it wasn't generating much income or hours. Then I was unemployed for about a year, and at one point I had to walk 2 1/2 hours to school - usually in the dark of early morning - when I lost my bus pass and my parents wouldn't give me money for a new one. Meanwhile, I was taking office skills classes in hopes of getting a job from that (my mother's recommendation) and looking for work. I ended up applying at Wendy's, a fast food place near my school which was also my favorite fast-food place at the time (now I'm not so sure). I was hired as a cashier/crew member but spent most of my time doing various stations in the kitchen. I was there for just over a year and let me tell you, I know now why so many people hate flipping burgers for a living. It is a pretty brain-dead job. Yet I had coworkers who were supporting their families off their job there (no wonder so many of them went to work for Chick-fil-A when one of those opened up nearby...it was supposed to have better pay, and they're closed on Sundays so you for sure get that day off). Fortunately, I found a better job. My dad had a client named Dannie who ran a small Christian bookstore with her husband Steve called Loaves and Fishes Christian Bookstore. Thanks to this connection, I managed to get an interview and got hired there. I had decent hours (I had been working only 2 1/2 hours a day most of the time at Wendy's) and good pay (I started at $8/hour). Plus, I was working in a bookstore, which for a bibliophile like me is an ideal job. It went pretty well, even with the strict dress code (having to wear a dress or a skirt and a nice blouse all the time), frequent lack of customers, and warnings from the management about my social behaviors that needed fixing. After almost two years there, I was let go - partially because I didn't fix aforesaid behaviors and partially because the place was going downhill financially and had to cut some staff. (They shut down about a year later, after having been in business 27 years. Steve, being a big train lover, now works checking for tickets and passes on the local commuter train. One of my former supervisors there now works at Berean, a more major Christian bookstore in the area, and is working on a book himself, as he told me when we ran into each other at the SDCWG conference last year). I was out of work effective November 1st, my last workday being Halloween of 2006. Fortunately, school was already paid for for the semester and I had some money left from my most recent paycheck, so I managed all right at first. However, this money soon ran out, and I had to borrow $100 from a supply of money I was giving to my parents to save for me in order to buy Christmas presents. Due to my parents pushing me, I searched for work semi-actively and eventually landed a couple of interviews around the same time - one for Walgreen's and one for Stater Bros. (which involved an initial interview and then a final interview that required a drug test). Stater Bros. called me back with a job offer first, so I took it. My first day was January 17, 2007, and I'm still there now. Due to getting my job so close to the end of January, I was unable to attend school in Spring 2007 (because I didn't have the money to enroll) and had to wait till fall to continue. Have my jobs been dead-end? For the most part, yes, although I did enjoy the job at Loaves and Fishes. I do long for the time when I can just write. But that may be a long time off, and I've realized I have to be practical. That's why I'm working on a web design certificate right now in addition to my B.A. so that I will have a marketable skill after college in case my writing doesn't work out right away. The fact that I enjoy web design as a hobby helps. My advice on legalism – toss it out. It produces guilt. ‘There is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus.’ That’s in Romans 8. I really like that verse. Legalism does indeed produce guilt. I don't know why I fell into it; it might've just been a gut reaction or a defense mechanism. I did grow up going to a Baptist school as well, which is perhaps more legalistic than other demoninations. About the Old Testamont - Paul, in his writings said that anything written afore time is for our learning. I don’t know the exact book or verse. That includes the Gospels I believe. Pretty much Acts and beyond pertain to us. But, we can learn from examples like King David, and Ruth and many others. And isn’t it wonderful to know we’re free of those horrid laws which those of the past had to follow? Yes I am very happy we don't have to follow those laws. If those were in effect, women couldn't go to work for about 1 or 2 weeks out of every month because they would be (to borrow a phrase from Clueless) "surfing the crimson wave" and thus be unclean. I do agree that we can learn from some of the stories in the Old Testament. Many Christians also find books like Psalms very useful, myself included. Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, and Song of Solomon also (I once read a rather good book on relationships that was based around Song of Solomon). It's interesting that you mention Ruth; I actually used that story as part of a series of Bible passages my wip's main character Avalon reads in the scene where she becomes a Christian. Since Ruth's story is about a foreigner being accepted and even becoming part of the lineage of Jesus himself, it stood out to me for her. Legally, former or current employers can not tell any potential employer more than to confirm that you worked there and I think what you made. They can’t give them any other info on you or else they risk being sued. This is why you need personal references. Oh. See, they always tell you they do background checks but I don't think they ever say what they check for. (Though I think by state law I can request a copy of my background check). I need to work on getting better personal references. I used to just use a couple of my high school teachers and the school librarian (who I was a library aide for my senior year and who has known me since I was a kid because I spent a lot of time in the library) as references on job applications. The best piece of advice I can give any single woman or man is this – give being single to God. Tell Him you’d like to find someone, but in His timing, not yours. Then be patient and wait. We’re promised God will give us the desires of our heart if we seek Him first. Trust that when you’re ready and the person being prepared for you is ready, you’ll meet. That's great advice. They talk a lot at my church about trusting God with your singleness. They actually have a group for singles at my church, though I think it's mostly for 30 and 40-somethings so I've never gone. I met my husband when I was thirty nine. I wouldn’t have been ready for him before then. And don’t think that everything will be perfect. We’ve had our ups and downs and almost separated a couple of times. God has kept us together. Wow. It's great that God kept you together. My parents have been married for nearly thirty years and even they had a difficult time a few years ago where they decided they just needed to live apart for awhile. They didn't formally separate or divorce; they just needed time apart. I stayed with my dad at our house while my mom and brother got an apartment near the beach. This went on for about six months, and then my mom and brother moved back in. I haven't heard my parents talk about that time since, so I don't know why they did it, but I'm glad they saw the need for separation early and did what they could to keep the marriage together. And I do understand your situation. I too, felt like there were nothing but creeps out there. My next piece of advice I will give is to remember you’re looking for a diamond in the rough. Paul said in marriage steel strengthened steel. I didn’t understand what that meant. Now I do. You help each other smooth out your rough edges and then the person starts to shine. It’s a process. It's definitely a process. Man and woman were made to complement each other, but because of sin, we clash instead. I have read the traditional marriage service from the Book of Common Prayer, and one of the things marriage is ordained for according to that is "for the mutual society, help, and comfort, that the one ought to have of the other, both in prosperity and adversity." I love that, because truly, that is what marriage ought to be like. Maybe this is why people didn't marry for love back in the day; you were expected to fall in love after the marriage. Books I recommend are and many of these are older titles: ‘Why Do I Think I Am Nothing Without a Man?’ by Penelope Russianoff, PH. D. ‘Smart Women, Foolish Choices’, don’t remember the author. ‘The Joy of Being a Woman’ by Ingrid Trobisch. ‘TheTotal Woman’ and ‘Total Joy’ by Marabel Morgan. Granted, these two are to help marriages in trouble, but they’re good reading for singles. ‘The Act of Marriage’ by Tim and Beverly LaHaye. Meant for couples but good reading for singles. ‘Fascinating Womanhood’ by Helen B. Andelin These are a mix of Christian and secular books. I don’t always agree with the secular. You read them keeping Biblical principles in mind. Thanks for the recommendations. I'll have to look into them. I too, don’t always use my free time for writing. I have other hobbies like my dollhouses, house work that has to be done, or I do just need downtime to watch a movie, read or relax not to mention two cats and a husband who need attention. Don’t get all guilty over this. We’re multi-faceted people. I’ve accepted the fact I’m a sporadic writer. I can live with that and am seeing the positive results by being able to accept myself as I am. Thanks. It's good to know I'm not the only one. I've lost track of how many things I've read that say you should set up a set block of time for writing each day. Honestly, who has the time for that these days? I know I don't. As for Denverfilk and the level of trust we have. This group has been together for ten years. Originally, someone else started and was running it. He had to drop out when his wife became very ill. I took over running the group by mutual consent. Now, you have to understand that it is very rare for a Christian, in SF circles, to end up in a leadership position. This was totally a God thing. I have had to tell one person he wasn’t welcome anymore. It was the most difficult thing I’ve ever had to do. No, I won’t go into details. It was best for the group otherwise I think it would have split us. I didn’t want that. I’m also part of Christian writing group. I’m not at the level of trust I am with DF. I’ve been encouraged, not judged, and they cheer my successes in the secular world while I cheer for theirs in the Christian publishing market. Well the longevity of the club does explain the level of trust. The writing workshop club I'm a part of also had to tell a member he had to leave not too long ago because he had been workshopping some stuff that was deemed inappropriate due to its sexual content. (The group IS secular, but even those in the club thought he'd gone too far; I just went with them even though I didn't actually understand the sexual references they were catching because of my naïveté about sexual matters - due to the fact that the only sex ed my school gave us was the "birds and the bees" talk in fifth grade and some gender-segregated discussion in biology class; I didn't learn more until I took Health as independent study in high school and then later in college). Also, apparently, there were other issues going on with him that I never really learned too much about. He didn't understand why we were getting rid of him at first, although he apologized for offending us in a Facebook message some of us got (but not all of us, apparently, since I got it and our club president did not). I am part of a critique group via the San Diego Christian Writers' Guild, but it's in danger of falling apart because the original person who ran it can't do it anymore due to a schedule change. Unless someone else steps up to run it, it's going to be gone soon. I don't know of any other Christian writers' groups in my area. I think one more thing to add to all the marketing is before everything happens, write a really really good book. Learn everything you can about the craft of writing and apply it to your own work. In the end, if people find your book, but the writing is so-so, they will not pass your book on by word of mouth. I don't know; those movies with nothing but badly-written dirty jokes seem to do just fine. But word-of-mouth advertising is definitely important. It's like something I read on the blog of SEO expert Seth Godin: it's better to have a small fanbase but be passing along ideas that are highly likely to get passed along then to have a huge fanbase but be passing along information that will be popular for a short time and then fizzle out. I agree you need to learn your craft and write a good book. Or even a so-so one. Stephanie Meyer has made a great deal of money on the Twilight series, and yes, I read all four books, and the writing is not that great. I know teens and adults who would argue with me about that. It’s an interesting story with a new twist and a lousy ending. Yeah even my friend Jessica, who's a writer and a Twilight fan, doesn't seem terribly impressed with the books. I haven't read them so I can't say. Of course, Meyer is still a relatively new author so maybe as she writes more books she will get better. Ditto for Christopher Paolini. J.K. Rowling (whose first books were the Harry Potter series) is an exception to this. However, since writers are now expected to do much of their own marketing it pays to get a head of the game and get a grounding while you’re learning your craft and writing your book or stories. It sounds daunting. I know. That's basically what I'm trying to do. It's not easy for sure. But I think it will pay off eventually. Although my impatient self wishes it would pay off sooner rather than later.
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Post by dragonlots on Apr 5, 2010 14:16:03 GMT -5
Waldenwriter –
I’ve been waiting years for my writing to pay off. Nor am I, despite the sales I’ve had this year, under any delusion that I’ve ‘made it’. With the changes in the publishing world many of my pro friends are having a difficult time. They share their experiences and I learn from them. I have no fantasy about being able to stay home and write full time. Well, okay, I still entertain the idea. It would be great, but I still need to bring in an income at least until the bills get paid off.
I have been poised and waiting for several years to start selling. God and I have had some arguments over it, too. I wanted something out by World Con here in Denver in 2008. God said, ‘Do you trust me?’ I reluctantly answered, ‘I don’t have a choice do I?’ As it turns out, I got a chance to read from ‘Winter Awakening’ while I was there and met someone who has promised to do a review of it when it comes out. So, my opportunities were not what I wanted, but I got some anyway. God had a better plan.
Right now, I’m hoping WA will be out by World Con in Reno next year. I’m still waiting on the contract, but I’ve decided God knows far better what is best than I do. So, I wait.
In the meantime, I’m working on short stories for anthologies and magazines and thinking about where to submit, and hopefully get accepted, so I have stuff coming out next year.
I also read for and mentor other writers, as my time permits. One of my young writers submitted her first story, at my urging, to an editor friend of mine. The story was rejected, but he liked it, made some suggestions and offered to allow her to re-submit it. As I told her, that was great and pretty much unheard of!
Writing everyday is not a bad thing either. I did that on my lunch hour everyday when I worked at Merchants. I did about a chapter a week that way. Besides, in my opinion, it was the most productive thing I did all day. I looked forward to it.
Also, about relationships, you mentioned in an earlier email you were afraid of being hurt. Truth is in marriage, couples say things that hurt the other one. When you’re willing to be hurt and still love the person, then you’re ready for someone else to be in your life. Also, you want a man who is looking for a companion. When they reach this point, they’re ready for marriage. If they’re looking for a trophy or anything else, throw them back in the pond.
One odd thing I will share here. When you met your future mate, it will be like you’ve always known them. It sounds strange, but it’s true. It’ll also happen when you’re not looking. I don’t know how many others I talked to who told me that. It was the same with me. I wasn’t looking when I met my husband. He was dating someone else who was younger and prettier. Very long story how we go together and no, I won’t share it right now.
Background checks employers usually do is a credit report. There’s a movement right now to outlaw the practice. They also just call employers to confirm you actually worked there.
And yes, Baptists are notorious for the legalism thing. I was pretty much brought up Southern Baptist. That’s why I’m now a Non-Dom and Charismatic.
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Post by waldenwriter on Apr 6, 2010 22:44:14 GMT -5
Waldenwriter – I’ve been waiting years for my writing to pay off. Nor am I, despite the sales I’ve had this year, under any delusion that I’ve ‘made it’. With the changes in the publishing world many of my pro friends are having a difficult time. They share their experiences and I learn from them. I have no fantasy about being able to stay home and write full time. Well, okay, I still entertain the idea. It would be great, but I still need to bring in an income at least until the bills get paid off. Yeah. I nursed that fantasy for a while, but I'm starting to realize that I have to think practically. That's why for the last several years I've been trying to think of something I could do as a day job to support myself until my writing really takes off (or I marry someone who's willing to support me without me having to work a day job). I have been poised and waiting for several years to start selling. God and I have had some arguments over it, too. I wanted something out by World Con here in Denver in 2008. God said, ‘Do you trust me?’ I reluctantly answered, ‘I don’t have a choice do I?’ As it turns out, I got a chance to read from ‘Winter Awakening’ while I was there and met someone who has promised to do a review of it when it comes out. So, my opportunities were not what I wanted, but I got some anyway. God had a better plan. Right now, I’m hoping WA will be out by World Con in Reno next year. I’m still waiting on the contract, but I’ve decided God knows far better what is best than I do. So, I wait. That's cool what happened at the conference. I've never thought about actually talking to God about that sort of thing. In the meantime, I’m working on short stories for anthologies and magazines and thinking about where to submit, and hopefully get accepted, so I have stuff coming out next year. I was thinking I should do that too. I have a couple Writer's Market books I can check for that. (I need to get the 2010 Christian Writer's Guide though, I only have the '09 one). I also read for and mentor other writers, as my time permits. One of my young writers submitted her first story, at my urging, to an editor friend of mine. The story was rejected, but he liked it, made some suggestions and offered to allow her to re-submit it. As I told her, that was great and pretty much unheard of! That's awesome! I don't know if I know enough craft to feel comfortable mentoring other writers, though. Writing everyday is not a bad thing either. I did that on my lunch hour everyday when I worked at Merchants. I did about a chapter a week that way. Besides, in my opinion, it was the most productive thing I did all day. I looked forward to it. I write sometimes on my lunch break, but other times I have school reading or something like that which I do during my hour-long lunch break, or I won't feel like writing on a certain day. I also write while on the bus or commuter train, or waiting for the bus or train, since I usually have free time then. Also, about relationships, you mentioned in an earlier email you were afraid of being hurt. Truth is in marriage, couples say things that hurt the other one. When you’re willing to be hurt and still love the person, then you’re ready for someone else to be in your life. Also, you want a man who is looking for a companion. When they reach this point, they’re ready for marriage. If they’re looking for a trophy or anything else, throw them back in the pond. Thanks for the advice. It reminds me of a line from Superchic[k]'s song "Anthem": "We have trophies to win instead of being one of yours." One odd thing I will share here. When you met your future mate, it will be like you’ve always known them. It sounds strange, but it’s true. It’ll also happen when you’re not looking. I don’t know how many others I talked to who told me that. It was the same with me. I wasn’t looking when I met my husband. He was dating someone else who was younger and prettier. Very long story how we go together and no, I won’t share it right now. Yeah I also believe in the idea of "a one true love." I actually wrote a poem about that for my Creative Writing class for an assignment to write something with emotive tone and musicality, called "The Person Just for Me." I've attached it to this post. Background checks employers usually do is a credit report. There’s a movement right now to outlaw the practice. They also just call employers to confirm you actually worked there. Oh. Thanks for that info. And yes, Baptists are notorious for the legalism thing. I was pretty much brought up Southern Baptist. That’s why I’m now a Non-Dom and Charismatic. Non-demoninational AND charismatic? Interesting. I went to Baptist school but have gone to an Evangelical Free church my entire life. So I've had a bit of both experiences - really legalistic and not so legalistic. Attachments:
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Post by newburydave on Apr 9, 2010 9:06:08 GMT -5
Sorry about being so late to the party (happens all the time I guess).
Dragonlots, thanks for all the insights into marketting. I can see I've got a lot of reading to do. I just bookmarked this thread.
And, from a male perspective, I will say a hearty Amen to that advice you gave WW about relationships. After 39 years of marriage I still feel like I've known my wife for my whole life (in actual fact we've been married for 2/3's of my life, but there's more there than that). I believe that there is an eternal component to marriage. There is a joining of spirits and souls that transcends the temporal "one flesh" relationship that this world focuses on.
I felt that I "knew" my wife before I ever met her. It was like I recognized her when I did meet her at the age of 20. Of course I'm more of a mystic than most people (Welsh blood you know), but I had the sense of an eternal link from the beginning.
Well gotta go. Thanks again for the insights.
Yours by His grace Alone. SGD
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Post by dragonlots on Apr 9, 2010 10:33:49 GMT -5
Social marketing via the Internet is a relatively new concept. There are a number of avenues like Facebook, Twitter, My Space, Linked In, Gather.com and many, many others. I’m on a number of different ones, but my mains are Facebook and Twitter. In fact, it’s suggested you only use two and not worry about the rest. I agree. It can get tedious trying to keep up.
Do they work? Hard to say. I see writers advertise their blogs or announce book events all the time. I do track their success since I know many of them, but I have yet to go read any of their blogs.
Also, several of us encourage each other. I have one writer friend whose goal is a 100 submissions. I get to read about her acceptances, rejections, and making the short list. Another is mostly freelance and she regularly talks about articles she’s writing. Yet another who talks about classes he’s taking to help his writing. It’s fun to watch everyone’s progress. Even I post comments about what I’m doing or not, to further my writing career.
I particularly pay attention during the Cons – Science Fiction Conventions. Each writer announces they got their schedule and sometimes what panels & when. This preview allows me to prioritize which ones I want to make sure I attend over other events.
Most of the above is on Facebook. My other main is Twitter, although I’m rarely on there. I do repeat announcements on it and there is scifichat on Fridays from about noon until 2 PM. David Rozansky runs it. He’s the publisher of Flying Pen Press. I’ve noticed for the past couple of weeks J. Litchenberg has been attending. For those of you who don’t know her, she’s one of the authors of the Sime/Gen series. It has its own cult following.
There are many other social sites and which one works best for you is your own choice.
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Post by dragonlots on Apr 9, 2010 10:41:45 GMT -5
Newburydave,
I’m still learning about marketing myself. I’ve got enough of a background to hit the ground running. It’s the one arena most writers wait to learn about until after they publish their first book. Big mistake! I went ahead and got myself educated while I waited. Good thing too with how things have worked out.
I’m not sure there is actually anything out there about marketing. Most of what I’ve gleaned is from attending conferences, conventions and writing groups. Hearing from the pros is always the best route. Because of them, I have no false expectations and know the reality of the writing world.
Thank you, for confirming what I’ve been sharing with WW. I know it’s difficult to understand as a single. I thought my married friends were nuts until I learned first hand what they said was true. I’m one of these people who mentors others, whether they’re writers or singles or those about to wed. Seems to be one of my callings.
In Him, DB
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Post by waldenwriter on Apr 11, 2010 18:15:52 GMT -5
Social marketing via the Internet is a relatively new concept. There are a number of avenues like Facebook, Twitter, My Space, Linked In, Gather.com and many, many others. I’m on a number of different ones, but my mains are Facebook and Twitter. In fact, it’s suggested you only use two and not worry about the rest. I agree. It can get tedious trying to keep up. You are SO right. It's hard to keep up with too many networks. Between my personal and writing networking, I have Facebook, MySpace, Twitter, LinkedIn, Scribd, LiveJournal (where my writing blog is), Blogger, and YouTube. It's a LOT to keep up with, and that doesn't even include forums I'm a part of or my semi-inactivity on GoodReads. Also, several of us encourage each other. I have one writer friend whose goal is a 100 submissions. I get to read about her acceptances, rejections, and making the short list. Another is mostly freelance and she regularly talks about articles she’s writing. Yet another who talks about classes he’s taking to help his writing. It’s fun to watch everyone’s progress. Even I post comments about what I’m doing or not, to further my writing career. That's cool. I try to use my networks for that sort of thing; I post on Twitter about how my writing is going, both my novel and the stuff I've been writing for Creative Writing class - and sometimes to LinkedIn too by "linking" (no pun intended) my tweet with LinkedIn via the "in" hashtag. I use my LiveJournal to talk at more length how my writing is going and to post word counts for my novel. I haven't quite figured out how MySpace is going to work yet - though I have blogged about my writing life there too. You're right, dragonlots, I don't think there is one resource out there about marketing. You should see how many articles there are out there just on how to use Twitter to your advantage! I signed up for a marketing class for writers, which is teaching me some stuff, but that's just one class's worth. My Internet Presence class is teaching me some stuff too. So no wonder marketing is so hard!
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Post by newburydave on Apr 12, 2010 7:57:35 GMT -5
I think it's the "Turkey City Lexicon" where they collected a bunch of witty sayings to describe various gaffes that writers fall into. One of the ones that the folks over at Baen added to the list was "Cat-Vaccuming". Imagine how much time it would take to vacuum the average cat. That particular Aphorism is defined as "The time wasting, writing related, things that consume the hours that we should spend writing." Remember the 1,000,000 word rule! You will probably have to write 1,000,000 words of your own creative content before you get good enough to be published. Reading about writing, talking/typing about writing doesn't cut it. The only thing that counts is BOCFOK time and wordcount. In other words; "Sit Down and Write!!!"(that's "Butt on Chair, Fingers on Keyboard" for you non-Barflies) Anything that keeps you from putting in your daly 'Tale of words' on the 1,000.000 word journey is 'cat-vacuuming'. I find myself sorely tempted to 'over-communicate'. Keeping up with the Anomaly and the Anomalous Sandbox is about all I can do in most days and still get my daily writing done. (sometimes I don't get it done ) So a pox on Fasebook, Twitter, etc if they get in the way of our 1,000,000 word journey. If we're well known, without a marketable book, what good is that? SGD
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Post by metalikhan on Apr 12, 2010 10:46:31 GMT -5
Imagine how much time it would take to vacuum the average cat. On my cat, it's about 15 to 20 minutes with the small shop vacuum, providing I stay away from her head. On one of the dogs I trained to stand for vacuuming, it took 10 minutes. ;D Yep, some of us do that! I agree with you there, bro. I've seen too many folks wasting time on the job with those things, never mind the time wasted away from work. Those things are time-thieves as well as privacy invaders. Seems too much like techno-slavery to me. The Anomaly and AnomSandbox are the only sites where I stay consistently and actively involved -- but even at that, I sometimes take brief time-outs from them if I'm deep in some project(s).
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Post by newburydave on Apr 14, 2010 8:53:36 GMT -5
Well since I started the Anomalous Sandbox and am the moderator in chief over there, I can't take too many vacations from it. (A tough crowd you know, we Christian Sf writers.) Although I have dropped the moderation requirement for new members if they're also members of the Anomaly. I figure I can trust you guys. I actually may be the edgiest writer in that group. And I am starting to get caught up on my critiques, honest I am! But that said (typed ) I've actually started through the "final" revision of my first novel . It's going up by chapters over at the Sandbox. When I finish that I'll be on easy street, right? LOL. I'm amazed though that you succeeded in "vacuuming your cat". Our cats acted like the vacuum was a cat eating predator. SGD
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Post by dragonlots on Apr 24, 2010 13:57:27 GMT -5
Info writers need to be aware of:
One, unless you are someone like Stephen King, Stephanie Meyer, etc. your publisher is not going to spend one dime on publicity for your book. That is up to you. I’ve covered many ways you can do this and I’ll add more – guest blogging.
Two, when you have a book coming out from a mainstream publisher, make sure everyone you know is aware of that. Ask them to go into the stores and ask the staff for the book. Otherwise, if, for example, your book is due to come out on April 28th, and the store doesn’t shelf it until the 30th, the House you’re with will have already issued a return on your book because it didn’t sell. (I learned this from the pros.)
Three, if your book is only available in print form, the odds of it being pirated is very high. People are used to immediate gratification. If they can’t get it electronically, someone will take the time to copy it and make it available – Free. That means neither you nor the publisher will make any money on it. I learned this at CoSine in January from a local writer who had this happen to her.
Four, while researching publishers, keep in mind that many readers now read in electronic form. If they only offer a printed version, you might want to talk to them about at least pairing with Amazon and get your book on Kindle. Many traditional publishers are not embracing this new technology and are losing potential sales because of it. It is to your advantage as the writer to think outside the proverbial ‘box’.
Five, remember it is not just US readers who are part of your potential market. You now have the opportunity to reach a global audience. That is why electronic forms are so important to your success as a writer.
Six, writers now have less costly ways to by pass publishers. Amazon offers once such route with higher profit margins than what publishers offer. The ‘old school’ writers are aware of this. It is causing a great deal of concern among them. I’m not sure if the Houses know or if they’re just ignoring thinking it is a fad.
Seven, many new writers are turning to smaller publishing houses. Most do not offer an advance and writers don’t see any royalties until the book has earned out. This is both an advantage and disadvantage, depending on the House. Many of the small ones are run by only one person and it can take forever to hear anything or else much of the staff is volunteer. You don’t always get the best labor from people who don’t get paid. I learned this during my ‘unofficial’ internship at a small local House. Eight, and I can’t emphasize this enough, while you are writing and revising your book, work on your platform. Many publishers today won’t even look at your MS unless you have one. By waiting until you sell your book you set yourself back at least two years. Be ready to hit the ground running. Okay, so you might have to wait a bit while waiting for an acceptance. That’s okay. Pre-marketing will help you in the long run. It gets people interested even if your book hasn’t been sold yet. Word of mouth is still an excellent marketing tool not to mention networking.
Nine, Yes, I know, most of us are very shy when it comes to meeting new people. Bear in mind most writers are introverts and that the person you’re talking to is just as nervous about it as you are. Besides, its fun to talk to someone who shares your passion. Network with fellow writers, sometimes they can give you leads on who to talk to, editors and go listen to agents. It’ll help you understand how they work, what genres they represent, and decide if they’d be a good match for you. Think of it as a marriage.
A comment I’m going to make here. I honestly don’t believe you need an agent unless you want to deal with big publishing houses. In fact, most of the small press prefer to work directly with the writer and not deal with the agent because they can’t afford to pay an advance up front. Freelancing is perfectly respectable, but be sure you have a good sense of business. If you don’t get yourself educated. There are plenty of books and if you can, intern. First hand knowledge is always best.
Ten, joining things like ACFW, WFTJ, SFWA, Broads of the Universe, and others, can be useful to you. There are dues to join and it looks good as part of your credentials. But take care on which one(s) you’re part of. Joining all of them may not be a good idea. Research them and then decide which meets your needs.
Eleven, writing conferences are great places to network. There are both secular and Christian. Some have editors and agents who attend, others where they’re only for writers. Research them all carefully and decide which one will be better for you.
A piece of advice I’m going to give here. Your first conference, just go to learn. Don’t pitch. Learn how to pitch instead. You’re going to be overwhelmed with the amount of material you’re going to learn.
At your second, research who is going to be there and see if your MS fits their needs. You’ll be much more relaxed because you’ve already been to a conference and have a better idea on what to expect.
Twelve, take advantage of learning at a writers feet, so to speak. Over the years by attending SF conventions I’ve gained a wealth of info about writing and what the publishing world. It has and will serve me well in the future. It will help you as well.
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Post by waldenwriter on Apr 27, 2010 21:42:53 GMT -5
Wow thanks for the tips dragonlots. I'll take those into consideration (although I have broken the one about not pitching at your first conference...I brought a pitch because there were going to be faculty consultants there).
I'm using my writing website as my final project for my Internet Presence class, so I'm going to be overhauling it soon. Thinking about my social media connections, I'm really seriously thinking about getting rid of my MySpace. The more I think about this, MySpace keeps popping up as my weakest link. My Twitter account seems to be doing well and my LinkedIn also; my LiveJournal I can cultivate. But my MySpace I really can't do anything with. But since I already have a personal account (non-writing related) on Facebook, I'm afraid of trying to writing-network on Facebook in case people find my other account.
Just checked my wall posts back to the beginning, and it looks like they're all set to "friends and networks only" due to the new privacy settings on Facebook. So I might do ok if I create an account under a different e-mail. After all, Facebook's way more popular now than MySpace.
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