Post by mongoose on Nov 10, 2007 1:24:16 GMT -5
Reading a couple of the last pages of posts, I think the gist of this thread has become a discussion of what sorts of protagonists work best for us. It began with a discussion of likely vs. unlikely heroes, and someone mentioned Aragorn as an example of a likely hero.
Perhaps, once we get to know his lineage and leadership skills, but it's a progression. Strider seems like "Just a ranger." A wile hunter man. Granted, I'm down with following wild hunter men, just as I could see myself following shepherds (like David of the Hebrews). I am an Alaskan, after all. But I couldn't see Strider leading a great army, or becoming king of a nation. That took him going through the paths of the dead and unveiling the banner and Anduril, and then the army came to him. The army came to the shepherd, when he started wiping out the enemy. Similar theme. But David didn't look like a hero to anyone other than his fellow shepherds, and Aragorn looked like a hero only to those who knew him.
Never the less, I am down with Aragorn and David type characters. In fact, one of my two PCs and the one I've spent the most time with, and will continue to develop the most, is qualified for heroic deeds. But not initially unless you figure it in the same way the shepherd was qualified. David's killing of lions and bears qualified him to lead an army and unite a nation. Somehow. Likewise, Kihn (My PC) is qualified to lead a small, elite team to righteous and heroic deeds because of his childhood strugle to survive as a runt on the reservation. As he persists through challenges, and finds ways other than physical strength or speed to prevail, he becomes more qualified. By the time the story begins, he's already a hero of sorts in his daily life, and it's no surprise as the story goes on that he saves lives and stops bad guys etc.
But even for someone qualified, like Aragorn, Kihn, or David, there must be a challenge for there to be a good story. Can Aragorn gain the allegience of an army, protect the secret of the ring, and challenge Sauron? Can Kihn escape those who want his head, regain some sense of self, dignity, honor, or pride, and play his part in restoring justice to a world war three wracked nation? Can David escape Saul, pull together a bunch of degenerates and brigands with a few professional warriors, and then unite the rest of a nation against the encroaching Philistines? Can he maintain his morality while he's at it?
All three lived as poor people, surviving by their hard work and/or off the land, for many years before gaining any followership or recognition. This isn't essential to a good hero, or a good story. But there has to be some reason for me to sympathise with the PC, to want him/her to succeed. I can't relate to someone who's born into wealth, privilage, and slides through West Point to climb the military chain of command and rescue a battalion from certain death and get a medal of honor. Good for him, but he was set up from the begining. Did he have to work for it? does it mean as much as it did for the young man from the ghettos who worked his way through community college and then enlisted? Maybe I just am suspicious of rich people. Sorry.
As for Female protagonists, the young lady in "Arena" worked for me, though I identified more with the leading male char. I basically want the character to be someone who's qualified and motivated, but doesn't have it made from the get go. And that's an adventure character. Works for women as well as men. Laura Croft was a good example of a female heroin, for me. Xena. Buffy (maybe not so much) Mrs. Smith. Trinity. Susan (Narnia). Ashley Judd in "Kiss The Girls." Jennifer Lopez in "Enough." Nikita.
It takes a little more convincing with female action heroes. Take "Alias." This little thing gets knocked around, takes dozens of head blows, and comes back immediately to kick tail. I don't think so. Those other women listed above looked like they might be able to take a beating. I need to believe that a character could do what they're doing, based on their physique and their history.
Perhaps, once we get to know his lineage and leadership skills, but it's a progression. Strider seems like "Just a ranger." A wile hunter man. Granted, I'm down with following wild hunter men, just as I could see myself following shepherds (like David of the Hebrews). I am an Alaskan, after all. But I couldn't see Strider leading a great army, or becoming king of a nation. That took him going through the paths of the dead and unveiling the banner and Anduril, and then the army came to him. The army came to the shepherd, when he started wiping out the enemy. Similar theme. But David didn't look like a hero to anyone other than his fellow shepherds, and Aragorn looked like a hero only to those who knew him.
Never the less, I am down with Aragorn and David type characters. In fact, one of my two PCs and the one I've spent the most time with, and will continue to develop the most, is qualified for heroic deeds. But not initially unless you figure it in the same way the shepherd was qualified. David's killing of lions and bears qualified him to lead an army and unite a nation. Somehow. Likewise, Kihn (My PC) is qualified to lead a small, elite team to righteous and heroic deeds because of his childhood strugle to survive as a runt on the reservation. As he persists through challenges, and finds ways other than physical strength or speed to prevail, he becomes more qualified. By the time the story begins, he's already a hero of sorts in his daily life, and it's no surprise as the story goes on that he saves lives and stops bad guys etc.
But even for someone qualified, like Aragorn, Kihn, or David, there must be a challenge for there to be a good story. Can Aragorn gain the allegience of an army, protect the secret of the ring, and challenge Sauron? Can Kihn escape those who want his head, regain some sense of self, dignity, honor, or pride, and play his part in restoring justice to a world war three wracked nation? Can David escape Saul, pull together a bunch of degenerates and brigands with a few professional warriors, and then unite the rest of a nation against the encroaching Philistines? Can he maintain his morality while he's at it?
All three lived as poor people, surviving by their hard work and/or off the land, for many years before gaining any followership or recognition. This isn't essential to a good hero, or a good story. But there has to be some reason for me to sympathise with the PC, to want him/her to succeed. I can't relate to someone who's born into wealth, privilage, and slides through West Point to climb the military chain of command and rescue a battalion from certain death and get a medal of honor. Good for him, but he was set up from the begining. Did he have to work for it? does it mean as much as it did for the young man from the ghettos who worked his way through community college and then enlisted? Maybe I just am suspicious of rich people. Sorry.
As for Female protagonists, the young lady in "Arena" worked for me, though I identified more with the leading male char. I basically want the character to be someone who's qualified and motivated, but doesn't have it made from the get go. And that's an adventure character. Works for women as well as men. Laura Croft was a good example of a female heroin, for me. Xena. Buffy (maybe not so much) Mrs. Smith. Trinity. Susan (Narnia). Ashley Judd in "Kiss The Girls." Jennifer Lopez in "Enough." Nikita.
It takes a little more convincing with female action heroes. Take "Alias." This little thing gets knocked around, takes dozens of head blows, and comes back immediately to kick tail. I don't think so. Those other women listed above looked like they might be able to take a beating. I need to believe that a character could do what they're doing, based on their physique and their history.