Female messiah?

[Divides the Waters]

Ugh ... now you're really making me work at this! Interesting. Well, I do recall that in Perelandra, the races needed no other Christ, but they were a new creation. I'm going to have to read Out of the Silent Planet again to see how that was handled.

I realize that The Chronicles of Narnia were designed to give children a version of Christianity devoid of stained-glass windows and litany, but I think that Lewis would not have suggested that he was replacing Christ with Aslan, since according to him, Aslan was not meant to be allegorical in the typical sense, but instead Christ in another form, dying once again for the sake of mankind.

I think the difficulty in this is trying to tell a story that reflects Christian principles in a world that has not heard of Christ. This, to me, is not all that different from Aslan (though one could argue that since they have Christmas, Narnians have heard of Christ). I am glad that there is no need to make the sacrifice more than once, though I have no doubt that the nature of God is such that He would make it as many times as necessary. You have to remember that this is fantasy, not historical fiction. Therefore, it is mythic in nature.

I fully agree with you about God revealing His character in many ways. The trick for me will be to do something ambitious without its coming off as cheesy or cliche (or worse, heretical). It's always my hope that if someone recognizes biblical themes, it will be an inspiration to go back to the source, not supplant it with my own fictitious version.

[Divides the Waters]

Just thought of something. This has been done in Bless the Child. Anyone see that film? Thoughts?

[strangewind]

I'd worry less about heresy and more about cheese. Christ who is in you will be faithful to complete the good work in you. A house divided cannot stand. A Christian writer is far less likely to lapse into heresy than he is to lapse into preachy mediocrity.

Never heard of Bless the Child, though. Are there lasers in it?

[Divides the Waters]

Afraid not. Just a little girl who is obviously a Jesus-type. There's even a scene where the Tempter of the story takes her to a rooftop and offers her the world. Obviously, he didn't know how to tempt little girls. He should have started with Barbies.

Well, I have to say that I have rarely been accused of cheese in my novel; one of the members of my writers group is a preacher, and has borrowed some of my phrases and takes on theology for his sermons. However, this seemed pretty ambitious, and I wondered if anyone had seen anything like it pulled off effectively in fiction.

[pixydust]

Have you started the project at all yet? Or are you still in the brain-storm stage?

[Divides the Waters]

Yes, and yes. I'm working on an epic fantasy series, the first book of which is done. I have about a dozen chapters finished in the sequel. In BID THE GODS ARISE (book one), the plot revolves around the search for a "Dreaded One," somebody the cursed vampiric race fears because he/she could bring about their destruction. They assume that it is a young man who has prophetic/psychic powers, and seek him out, and exploit him. However, by the end of the book, it is revealed that one of the characters is pregnant, and another has had a vision from Yasul (the Creator God of this universe), and so it's left a little ambiguous who the "Dreaded One" is. In the sequel, WORLDS BEYOND THE WELL, the child will be born, and therein lies the crux of the matter ... I want to do something pretty special with this story.

[Divides the Waters]

I had a long talk today with a friend of mine (a member of my writers group, and a pastor). I felt somewhat vindicated that I had picked up on some of the theological concepts inherent in scripture and related writings regarding the feminine aspects of God. Not only the obvious "nurturing," but the personified "wisdom." Phreow. What fun this is going to be! (I'm always a little dubious writing about wise characters because I feel that I'm lacking severely in the wisdom department.)

[scintor]

You also need to wach the differentiation of archtype and type. Christ is the archtypical savior, yet even within the pages of the bible there are quite a number of typical saviors. Moses, Joshua, the judges, Neamiah are all typical saviors. You can add to this list both Deborah ans Esther. If you go for the typical and not the archtype, you can do quite well.

Scincerely,

[e-mail]

[torainfor]

I think the form that "salvation" will take will influence the form of the "messiah." At first I thought of Arwen ("If you want him, come and claim him!") or any of the numerous virgins in the world sacrificed to dragons or snake-filled pits. Now I'm thinking Leeloo from "The Fifth Element."

[Divides the Waters]

Good points. I have a "typical" Deborah-like figure in the first novel, and have planted the seed for something greater to come.

The Fifth Element is a good example of a modern female messiah. I'm going to really have to work on how exactly this one saves the world/s, since I already have an apocalyptic ending planned featuring one of the other characters.

[Jeff Gerke]

Can I just say I love Chris Tucker's character in that movie?

Sorry, off-topic.

;-)

Jeff

[Divides the Waters]

"Korban ... Dallasssss....!"

I have to admit I enjoyed the film. I also fell in love with Inva Mula-Tchako, but that's another subject altogether.

[Vaporwolf]

I haven't given much thought to the concept of a female messiah on the level of Christ before, though it is quite interesting to think about.

If this female messiah is specific to the salvation of the cursed vampiric race (thus destroying them through redemption) then I think I could see how you could work it out in a way that wouldn't have too many cries of heresy. But that's something I think every Christian speculative writer has to come to terms with on their own.

I still have a bit of a worry about another Christ coming to people directly descended from Adam. But there are different theological stances on that so I won't get too picky. Though on that note I never viewed Aslan as dying to redeem the humans again, but rather as a fulfillment of the events started in The Magician's Nephew when evil was introduced to Narnia. So basically this was the "redemption" of Narnia. But that's probably deeper than intended.

I'll have to think about this more.

[mongoose]

My understanding of "Bless the Child" the movie, was that the child was more of a second coming of the Chirst, and the "tempter" tried to take her to make her into the anti-Christ instead.

I enjoyed the movie, but couldn't call it a very good movie. The portrayals of the angelic vs. the demonic were interesting, spooky, and a little over the top, but who knows what we'd be seeing if our eyes were opened to the Spiritual in the way those of the characters in the movie were?

And I think the rooftop scene was more the, "Throw yourself down and see if God'll catch you," than "I'll give you the world if you'll just worship me," thing. She then replies, as she did several times throughout the movie, "You first." Clearly, that was frustrating to the tempter, and amusing to me as the viewer.

[Divides the Waters]

Vaporwolf, you may be closer to the truth on that one than you know. My "female messiah" notion isn't really so much the redemption of mankind through another channel as it is dealing with an evil that was introduced to this particular world in the far past.

Mongoose, you could be right about the rooftop scene in Bless the Child, but I still think it was a stupid choice for a child. It did lead up to that great line, but it didn't have any consistency for a man trying to tempt a child.

And it wasn't so much a "very good movie" as it was a little groundbreaking ... a fairly unabashed Christian perspective, and a Christian protagonist (the detective) who wasn't shown as a fanatic or a heretic. And I liked the idea of having one's eyes open to all the spiritual activity going on around us. Think of all the things that pass through our bodies every second (wireless, radio, radiation, etc.). We're surrounded by waves of energy. If that's true on the physical level, how much more could it be true on the spiritual?

To answer your PM here, the attempt in my story is not to do a one-on-one re-telling of Christ, although the parallels are unmistakable. It's more of an attempt to look at another facet of God, to harmonize the supposedly contradictory notions of grace and justice, and to give the Messiah "myth" (please don't misunderstand my usage of that term here) a new and (hopefully) unique twist.