Could clones have souls?

[stormiel]

A friend brought up this question when we were discussing a story idea. I wanted to see what other people thought.

Could clones have souls?

[rjj7]

Human clones are actually a naturally occurring feature; identical twins are technically clones. I think the underlying questions are actually: Can scientists create an embryo artificially, and if so, would it have a soul? (if these aren't, then please smack me upside the head)

With regard to the first, I don't see any philosophical objections to the concept. If they can create embryos artificially, then there would be no real difference between that and cloning. Cloning is just the simplest technique available for getting the necessary DNA. But making a fertilized embryo that is a clone vs making one that isn't seems to me to be a trivial distinction (since clones are naturally occurring anyway).

With regard to the second question (would it have a soul?), I don't see it as a problem either. Get me a female lab assistant for the--experiment, and I'm pretty sure that I could create a soul. Now, it would naturally not be *me* creating the soul, but rather God. But I don't see why he would quibble between granting a soul to a fertilized embryo made one way vs another.


I guess for me the question is more: Why wouldn't it have a soul?

EDIT: I am assuming that you are referring to full human clones, and not the bizarre sorts of experiments where people clone DNA from different species and combine it.

EDIT2: There are other factors besides DNA that would have to be considered as well. I'm no biologist, so I don't fully understand them. But you could start by reading this article, which gives an overview of the "master puppeteer" enzymes that control the "puppet" DNA.

[stormiel]

Yes, human clones. I'm leaning towards that same question, "Why wouldn't it have a soul?"

Oh, the conundrums of speculative fiction.... lol

[Bethany J.]

The clone would be human. Therefore I believe he or she would have a soul. We are created in the image of God, after all. A clone of someone isn't part of that other person they were cloned from, or even that other person exactly. They would be a separate individual, right? It seems to me they would have a soul just as any other human being does. ...Will stop rambling now.

[Christian Soldier]

I'm of the opinion that, even if it is a human construct, it would still have a soul as long as it still is based on God's image like we are. In other words, as long as it shares the breath of life with us; however, it would be an interesting topic to explore in a story. At what point are we talking about something so OTHER that it wouldn't have a soul? Is there a point?

[Kristen]

Mary Shelley wrote a little story that kind of explored this question. I don't remember offhand whether she came up with an answer.

I think you could make the case either way. I like the way Glyn put it. But just totake the contrarian view...The brain is biological, so you could create one from stuff...but what is a soul? If it's a gift of God, then he might withold it from clones just to show us the limits of our puny science.

[Joel P.]

Sept 25, 2013 9:00:43 GMT -5 Kristen said:

I think you could make the case either way. I like the way Glyn put it. But just to take the contrarian view...The brain is biological, so you could create one from stuff...but what is a soul? If it's a gift of God, then he might withold it from clones just to show us the limits of our puny science.

And that raises the question: what would a being without a soul be like? Would you be able to tell they didn't have a soul?

Interesting ideas to examine.

[Christian Soldier]

I think you would be able to tell, personally. But I think they would behave similarly to how a person who knows that they are lost, and loves it, would behave. Most of them, anyway

[Bethany J.]

I imagine they would act like animals, if they did not have souls. Like some animals, they might have some personality, they might have habits and affections, but they would lack logical thinking, creativity, the ability to truly love, and the other traits that make humanity unique from the animal kingdom.

[Kessie]

This thread has canvased the clone question pretty well. So here's one of mine that I chew on sometimes:

If a person received a brain transplant, would they retain their soul, or take on the other guy's soul?

[metalikhan]

One of the best recent explorations of this was Dean Koontz's Frankenstein series. Chilling and deeply sad in so many ways, and most of the clones were soul-less, conscience-less. But there's some indication that the first Frankenstein monster (who now calls himself Deucalion) has been granted both soul & conscience. Later in the series, it's implied that a pair of the newer clones receive the gift, too.

As for the brain transplant -- anybody's guess, but IMO, the brain would carry the soul.

Sept 27, 2013 14:57:08 GMT -5 Bethany J. said:

I imagine they would act like animals, if they did not have souls. Like some animals, they might have some personality, they might have habits and affections, but they would lack logical thinking, creativity, the ability to truly love, and the other traits that make humanity unique from the animal kingdom.

Ummm -- except I've seen logical thinking & problem solving (not trained responses), creativity, love happen in animals. So many church people are unobservant and so very certain animals are soul-less.

[newburydave]

The greek word 'Technae' (Technology) means "The children of our minds".

IMHO this means that a technologically based clone is a child of the men who created the technology created in their own image. Since they are men and thus children of Adam, the Clone would also be a child of Adam: ergo a human with a soul.

I also believe that this applies to true AIs as well.

Write on beloved siblings

SGD
dave

[stormiel]

There are two types of cloning, artificial twinning and somatic cell nuclear transfer. Artificial twinning is manually separating a zygote into two individual cells causing two identical embryos. And from what I understand, SCNT uses an unfertilized egg and removes the nucleus, which at that point only contains one set of chromosomes and replaces it with a nucleus from a non-reproductive cell already containing two chromosomes. Which in that case it seems like if a human were cloned it would be basically like a twin. Within that line of thought I believe that clone would have a unique soul. Now before I go on, I'm not saying that it would be right to clone anyone. I'm firmly against the idea of cloning humans. However, a clone might make an interesting plot in a fictional story. I'm going to be hanging out with this same friend that started this discussion today, so we'll see how it goes lol.

[Christian Soldier]

I think that we tend to underestimate God and His mercy. I think that all sentient being receive this gift.

As for brain transplants, check out the research done with people who suffer brain damage later in life. The alterations in behavior can be significant. You can't damage the soul, but the brain, yes. Now, transferring the brain, then, would cause the personality traits that are caused by the brain will follow.

The interesting point here is that I don't think the soul will transfer. We, humans, do not have access to someone elses soul. Not directly. Only God has that power, and assuming that man can do such a thing is a little arrogant.

[Bethany J.]

I don't think the soul is tied to the brain...it's a biological part of our bodies like any other part, but our souls are spirit. But that is a really interesting thought that the person with the transplanted brain would have a whole different personality and habits. That makes sense.