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Post by kouter on Dec 17, 2008 19:19:13 GMT -5
Interesting dilemma, or perceived dilemma. I'm unpublished with a finished MS and about a 1/3 of its sequel done. And I've been stuck at that point for months. Mainly due to work/family/life commitments on top of plain ole procrastination. I wonder from time to time if i should hold off on pursuing publication until the second one is finished. Cause if I do get a deal and they want the sequel, I see no way of pushing it out under deadline. But then again maybe i could.
I think what it all boils down to is, "why do you write?" Is publishing the main thing, or do you want to just tell your story and enjoy writing. While I'd love to be published and think I might have a fair shot at it, you always have to remember that getting published is a little like winning the lottery. So really you might be worrying vainly about something that might not even happen, or might not happen overnight at least.
As someone in a similar position I would suggest you try for publication and in the 2~3 year wait/rejection/re-submittal process, keep writing. Who knows, by the time you hit that big deal, maybe you'll have your whole trilogy in the can ready for sale.
My 0.02 €
~Kirk
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Post by Jeff Gerke on Dec 18, 2008 10:03:18 GMT -5
Kirk, Having read and loved your first book, I definitely encourage you to keep working on the sequel. If you have two completed mss. ready when a publisher is interested in the first one, you've just helped yourself in one of those intangible ways. Having said that, though, you don't need to finish your second novel before approaching agents and publishers about your first. If you hadn't completed the first, I'd tell you not to bother contacting anyone until that one was done, but that's not your situation. Let's say you get the interest of a publisher and they contract you to write two books. Well, it will probably be a year or so after contract before the first book is published. You'd have all that time to be working on the first draft of the second book. (Well, you'd be working with an editor on the first one, but most of the time you'd be free to work on #2.) By the time the publisher was ready for book 2, you'd have it. Because, believe me, when you have a book coming out and you know you've got a second one due, you'll be...motivated. You'll find time to make it happen. But you raise a good question about why you write. I think my own reasons for writing have evolved over the years. At first, it was probably because I thought it would be fun, unusual, and possibly like winning the lottery. Well, it was fun (at times) and is a little unusual, but it was definitely not like winning the lottery. I guess it was, in the sense of something rare happening to me, but not in the sense of any financial windfall. If anyone reading this is writing because you think it'll be a good way to get rich, think again. I know probably 200 published Christian novelists, and only about 5 of them make a decent living at it. Most of them are housewives with husbands whose full-time jobs support their writing habit. [Meaning no disparagement in any of that; they're dear people and gifted writers.] Then I began writing because I thought it was what God wanted of me. I thought He would take my books and use them to do some wonderful thing, like align the planets or bring Osama bin Laden to Christ or something. So far that hasn't happened. I realize that even that goal, noble as it sounds, is really about seeking the sublime. I wanted something big to happen, but nothing did. Early on, I wrote to prove something. To prove that I was a good writer. To prove that all my silly talk about writing a novel was more than just silly talk. I don't think that was a very good motive, either. Now I'm not writing. Not really. Why is that? Maybe because all my bad motives have been stripped away and I'm left with...? Well, I'm left with little motivation to write. Now I'm motivated to do whatever it takes to pay the bills. Before, I was willing to do without a few things and take a few risks because I was shooting for the stars. Now, not so much. I do have story ideas in my mind. But I don't write them, even when I do have discretionary time. I find that I'm not only not motivated to write, it's almost as if I don't want to write. Isn't that strange and awful? Maybe I need counseling. Maybe I'm angry at God or disillusioned or coming back to reality or something else. Or maybe this is just a new season in my life, a season when I can encourage (and even publish) other aspiring Christian novelists. Jeff
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Post by seraphim on Dec 18, 2008 11:17:53 GMT -5
Been there, done that, invested in the T-shirt factory.
I can certainly sympathize, I've been working on one story now for decades...or rather working out the mileu of several stories for decades...it evolves...and I've got a number of interconnected story ideas set within that milieu that cover roughly 75,000 years of non existant future time. I write bits and pieces here and there...but mostly I don't write I think and refine and time marches on. And then there are the literary story ideas I have, most also unwritten.
When I think about the reasons I don't write some of it falls under the category of insufficient writing discipline...no just chugging away at it like daily exercise (which I don't do either). Then because I do technical writing for a living...more writing for "fun" just doesn't motivate me most of the time. On the artsy side theres the "I really want to be sure about what I have to say" bit before I start and pick some dead end direction. And there is the tiny puritan with the sharp stick whispering...do you think that's what God really wants from you...a piece of fiction for people to waste their time with?" On the other shoulder sits the tiny monastic...if your not going to have a story as serious and insightful and spiritually nourishing as Dostoyevsky...or the better works of Mr. Lewis why would you presume to write for publication at all...sheer hubris." Now sometimes these two take a vacation and turn over their posts to the literary critic, "you know you should really dig into some of the ideas of Russian new realism to see if you can develop some really stunning literary effects...or read more O'Connor, Lafferty or Wolfe to see how they craft language, then you can write."'
Sometimes I think it is a matter of finding internal permission to write...to find a reason that justifies thinking I might actually have something to say of value and that disentangles the desire to write from the snares and goads of vanity. It is easy to write when people are telling me how wonderful I am, how much they liked my story and if I had any more...just a minute ma'am, one short story and a side of pride coming right up. Sometimes I just wanna bust out in a hymn to my own presumed genius, "Praise me, praise me; all of the people should praise me, since I write great stories so wonderfully told...etc., etc." And if I do, then like Sally Fields I have the assurance, "they like me, they really like me"...and that's what its all about isn't it...being liked...proofs for a moment of one's worth in the universe. It's like high school all over again--with words. If the cool kids like me...then that would be so great--hey lookit what I can do! "Ooooo....ahhhhhh." Another soothing hit of cosmic validation.
And we know that is not a noble reason to write...and we don't want to write without a noble reason...but that strikes me as just another snapshot of our ego on display, this time playing dress up with high purpose.
Whatever the reason or reasons though, the end result is the same, lots of thinking about writing, precious little actual pen to paper...which brings me to the refrain from an old Christian childrens' song. "I cannot come. I cannot come. I cannot come to the banquet, don't bother me now. I've married a wife. I've bought me a cow. I've fields and commitments that cost a tidy sum. Pray, hold me excused I cannot come."
Perhaps what is lacking is humility, our making such gifts as we have about us...our wants, needs, motivations, etc. rather than about others, about what we can give of ourselves in our stories without regard for if it is accepted or not. Perhaps what we cannot do for ourselves and our own well oiled egos we can do for love...to tell a story for someone we love. [enter the little editor..."what are you thinking...that's so maudlin...I'm gagging...diabetic coma reduex...get off the soapbox already."]
All of which reminds me of an old monastic story about a monk who went to his spiritual father and said, "I think I'm spending too much time in my garden. All the time I spend in it I could be at prayer." So his spiritual father said, "dig it up". And that is what the monk did. He dug up every flower, every vegetable that he had and gave himself all that time back to pray. Some months went by and the monk began to miss seeing the flowers in their season or the occasional fresh tomato and mess of butterbeans and that remembrance also distracted him and so he went to his spiritual father and said, "I miss my garden." His spiritual father replied, "So, plant it again."
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Post by kouter on Dec 18, 2008 19:26:54 GMT -5
Hmm,
Some definite soul searching going on here. I must admit the reason for writing my first book was to help evangelize my brother and my best friend. They both liked my sci-fi writing when I wasn't a Christian, so i wrote the book as a means to express what its like for me as a Christian and encourage them as well. So that was the motivation behind my first book.
My second book is more about alerting Christians in general to the preserving of the Faith against the likes of Islam and secularized pluralism. Pretty preachy topic, but I'm hoping to make an entertaining story that informs and awakens at the same time. Maybe it'll even help a Muslim to understand Christianity better and vice versus. Anyway these are my motivations and goals for writing. They are not as personal as my first book so staying motivated is harder, but all i need to do is see a left wing agnostic crying down Christianity yet kissing up to Islam because they are afraid of repercussions, to get my blood pumping again.
Jeff, i wouldn't feel too bad about the path God has taken you on. I for one am grateful for the opportunity you are affording us Christian Spec-fic writers by using all your experience and talent to make MLP. Maybe your breakthrough novel is still simmering inside you waiting for the right moment to emerge.
One thing that has helped keep me motivated is getting instant feedback. I use writing.com. It can get addictive sometimes, but some of the comments I've gotten back on my chapters alone make the chore of writing worth it.
Then of course there are those occasions where i am editing, and then all of a sudden I'm right in the story enjoying my own writing. I guess entertaining yourself counts as a fairly okay reason to write lol.
But how about just wanting to entertain? I know i enjoyed reading the MLP novels, Jeff's novels, loved Frank Creed's Cyberpunk novel. So maybe that in itself is reason enough to write. A service to other Christians.
Lets face it. People are going to read novels to goof off, waste time and just have fun. And Christians will do it with secular books if they can't find Christian ones. So why not fill that need? Write your novel like you give out food to the homeless. You shouldn't expect anything in return, just the joy of service to your fellow man.
The Bible says there will be work in heaven. I like to think that God prepares us here for that work. Think of it. In a world where we are all working in our giftedness and purpose, not for financial gain or to make a living, but just because its what we love to do. Certainly there will be times when you'd want to read a good book, so guess who'll be writing them?
Better get our practice in now!
~Kirk
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Post by mongoose on Dec 19, 2008 0:16:04 GMT -5
Anyone write because they are a good writer, and they have a good story to tell, one that people need to hear, and because God has called and equiped them to fulfill the destiny of writing that story in such a way that people will hear it? That's the impression I get of Ted Dekker, reading and listening to his stuff that he writes and says about his fiction.
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Post by Jeff Gerke on Dec 19, 2008 8:26:49 GMT -5
Good thoughts, everyone.
We're such a mix of holy and horrid, aren't we?
Jeff
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Post by rwley on Dec 19, 2008 10:39:16 GMT -5
From someone who has been writing for 36 years and been published for 2; keep at it. I write because I have to. If I give up writing, I might as well give up breathing. I have aspirations to more works getting published, but that is not the reason I write. I simply have to write down the stories that are screaming in my head or the characters are going to turn on me and explode my brain. That's my motivation.
Jeff, what you are doing is lifesaving to many Christian spec writers. Even if you don't publish every manuscript you get, and you won't, you are giving hope and breath to those out there who have the same affliction I do. Perhaps God just showed you a different passion.
I do agree about submitting the completed manuscript and meanwhile work on the second. It takes TIME. It takes PATIENCE. But . . . if God's will is that you publish, it will happen in His time. Once I learned to simply write and let God deal with the details, it got much easier. I still have to learn the lesson daily, but I'm getting better. And my writing is improving. Through my Christian critique group, through Jeff's websites and through this forum, I am getting better at my craft.
Anyway, I'm not getting rich on my books I have published. I've made a total of just under 250.00 for both books since August of 2007. That's not going to change my lifestyle.
Trust God to guide you. Whatever you do, let Him lead you and you will succeed in whatever it is.
That's my view.
Robi
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Post by seraphim on Dec 19, 2008 11:42:31 GMT -5
Not change your lifestyle....$250.00 thats..that's most of an ipod or a whole deluxe kingsize electric blanket, or a nice toaster oven...or a dinner and tip for ten of your most intimate family and friends at a chain steakhouse...or your teenagers long distance bill.
Come on...so much to do with that much liquid cash.
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Post by torainfor on Dec 19, 2008 13:17:32 GMT -5
Jeff, lemme get this straight. You're a successful (published) writer in a tough, but wonderful, genre. Your reader reviews at Amazon are all 4s and 5s (yes, I looked) except for some crazy, venomous broad who apparently gets off on spewing toxin all over people she doesn't know (yes, I looked). You have a God-given gift to write and a God-centered view that people need to hear. And now you're unmotivated? Dude, that's, like, the most depressing thing I've ever heard. mongoose, I feel like I'm an alright writer who has a decent story to tell. But I think the story would be outstanding if someone better were writing it! seraphim, ...or printer cartridges to print the pages for her writers' group!
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Post by Teskas on Dec 19, 2008 13:18:00 GMT -5
I've come to the conclusion that there are two ways of looking at this. One is practical, and that is there is an advantage to keep writing no matter where one stands with the publishing world. You never know when that contract is going to arrive in the mail.
I just finished reading Stephen King's On Writing. What struck me about his autobiography was that when he managed to get a novel published for the first time with Carrie, he had already completed two other novels which were gathering dust. With the overwhelming sales of Carrie he was able to submit the two other works to his publisher. Later on, he tells of having submitted a short story he had written when he was a teenager, which was immediately snapped up by the same sci-fi magazine which had rejected the story years before.
The other way of looking at this is spiritual. I think if you have been given the desire to write, it is a gift from God. You exercise that gift when you write, and it is a form of returning thanks to Him for His generosity. When you work at your writing, honing your skills, trying to write your very best, that gives glory to God even if you don't get published. And isn't that why we were made, to give glory to God and delight in His delight?
I like to imagine that somewhere in Heaven there is a bluff angel with a green eyeshade assigned to read my stuff. He pulls the blue pencil he is chewing on out of his mouth and scribbles a note which reads, Not bad, kid, not bad. The Boss is keeping an eye on you. Keep up the submissions. Sheer fantasy, I know, but, hey, this is the web address for it.
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Post by metalikhan on Dec 19, 2008 13:30:28 GMT -5
I agree with rwley. Writing, breathing — one feels as necessary as the other. The brief periods when I stopped were miserable, like trying to cork a volcano in my brain. Writing eases the pressure so that nothing blows somewhere else. Writing for money — well, that would be nice; but what I've had published in the past mainly paid in copies, although one mag paid me $75 for a set of three poems. Another place gave me a sticker with the magazine's logo.
So I still punch a time clock out of necessity — God has His reasons for keeping me in the work force as well as keeping the flow of stories going. If He decides to reward the writing financially, that's His call; but I've noticed more often that the reward is less tangible. He has used what I write and share with others to teach or illustrate something in a way they never considered or to simply brighten their day, make them laugh when they think there's no laughter left in their world. The story I posted in Anomalous Readings (Sincerely, Simon, Parts 1 &2) collected a hefty stack of rejections; but that goofy character has brought smiles and laughter to individuals whose lives were pretty bleak. "Simon" has done what God required him to do; and I can thank God for this character who let me experience the saying about angels flying because they take themselves lightly.
Jeff, your writing may indeed be on hold for a while; but consider that MLP and the encouragement you give other Christian writers could not have happened without it. Encouragement is also a spiritual gift, one that God is putting to use immediately. Your writing may be going through an aging process, racked like a fine wine; and the flavor and texture of it will change with the life experiences God brings your way. These are lessons that come with time and patience. When it reaches the point God wants to see, He may fire anew your passion for the stories in you. You will be miserable resisting it or you will obey; and the obedience will open the gates for a particular kind of joy God has for you and a dopplering of blessings He wants pour out through what you write.
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Post by morganlbusse on Dec 19, 2008 13:59:37 GMT -5
Wow, I never realized this thread would generate such thoughts. I had originally posted this thread asking how the whole pursuing publishing affected people's families (being a mom with young kids made me go: do I have the time and energy to spend away from my family?). Then after a full day of mommyhood (translation: 1 box of cereal dumped, milk spilt, 2 broken ornaments, kids suddenly breaking every rule we have in this house, and a plugged up toilet) made me realize two things: I'm writing the wrong book, should do one on how a mom can stay sane and no, I am not ready to do what it will take to be published. So since I had my answer, I deleted my thread, but that was before Kouter had a chance to reply. And now I'm glad it worked out that way... that everyone had a chance to look at why they write and what it takes to be published. I don't know about you guys, but writing is like a fire in my soul. Even if I never published, I've got to get this story out of me. There are times when I wished I didn't write, could be like some of my friends and just be a mom. But it has a hold on me, I love to put words together and tell a story, a story that is from my heart. And I want to share that story with others, that they can feel what I feel, go through the struggles that I via my characters go through, and in the end realize that God had everything under control. So I don't think its wrong to want to be published, because who doesn't want their story heard? However, as Jeff pointed out so eloquently in one of his tips of the week, it should not be to fulfill you, only God can do that. And sometimes he makes us wait so that we truly understand that.
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Post by dizzyjam on Dec 19, 2008 22:44:51 GMT -5
I know this was for published authors, but after reading all the thoughts that went in, I just got to put a two center in from this unpublished author. I'm one of the ones that isn't consistent with my writing in that everyday I write and have a time set aside and all that. I probably would have had a few novels done by now if not published if I had. But I read at the top where the question is asked: Why do you write? I know a lot of people on here (and other threads on this board and forum) have mentioned how we should have a purpose in it and have mentioned honorable means for writing. I just write because I can and I have fun with it. That and because there are stories out there I'm not seeing and since I can write, I suppose I should be the one to write them. I'm probably not as polished as a English graduate, but I do know how to draw you in and make you want more. At least that's what the people that have read my material have told me. Plenty of people have told me to keep writing. So I do. I just keep starting new stories and don't always write. So I'm working on correcting that. When I finish something I'll see if I can get it published. But first I'll use Jeff's services to make sure I get it that polished feel I need. Just write for the heck of it. If you're a believer then by nature you should put you faith in there in some way, for some it's embedded while for others it's on the surface. Either way works, but just write. If you can and you like it, then why not? God gave you the gift, so enjoy it! Sorry if I've butted in, yet I hope that this post helps some people out there like me that aren't published as of yet.
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Post by seraphim on Dec 20, 2008 0:15:03 GMT -5
Dere are poiposes and den dere are poiposes.
Personally I strongly distrust "purpose" (agenda) driven fiction... polemical tractates in narrative form...purtian utilitarianisms...not a fan. It is very difficult to do so that it works as more than drag for some soapbox "argument" masquerading as a story. If the purpose is to develop an expanded "Chick Tract" without pictures, then its not something I think has much of a chance at working for a reading public much outside the bounds of a narrow sliver of a narrow Christian ghetto. I am in favor of more Christian authors trying to emulate O'Connor and Dostoyevsky and a lot fewer taking their inspiration from the oeuvre of Tim LaHaye and company.
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Post by kouter on Dec 20, 2008 3:36:31 GMT -5
Dere are poiposes and den dere are poiposes. Personally I strongly distrust "purpose" (agenda) driven fiction... polemical tractates in narrative form...purtian utilitarianisms...not a fan. It is very difficult to do so that it works as more than drag for some soapbox "argument" masquerading as a story. If the purpose is to develop an expanded "Chick Tract" without pictures, then its not something I think has much of a chance at working for a reading public much outside the bounds of a narrow sliver of a narrow Christian ghetto. I am in favor of more Christian authors trying to emulate O'Connor and Dostoyevsky and a lot fewer taking their inspiration from the oeuvre of Tim LaHaye and company. LOL, you're too high browed for me man. I understood about 60% of what you just said ;D
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